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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:57 am 
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webbsy wrote:
I would be damn curious to know just what has really gone down at Ferrari between Seb and the team. The relationship has just imploded at warp speed.
Yeah, this is Prost 91 levels of shade being thrown back and forth.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 12:20 pm 
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webbsy wrote:
I would be damn curious to know just what has really gone down at Ferrari between Seb and the team. The relationship has just imploded at warp speed.

I remember him being annoying and complaining a lot as well when Ricciardo beat him and Red Bull weren't as dominant in his last season.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:00 pm 
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alex1369 wrote:
I hope this is really the last Spain GP, cuz this track is just crap. It has a contract for only this year. Its very hard to pass.
Its good for testing but racing not, even the rain does not want to come to this track since 1996, i would take Paul Ricard anytime over this track


The Spanish GP should move to Motorland Aragon :whistling:

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 1:27 pm 
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I wouldn't mind the circuit if they just got rid of that awful chicane. It's added absolutely nothing since they started using it. It might be difficult for the cars to follow through the high speed final corners, but I think the DRS zone is long enough to make overtaking possible. The higher speeds would also push the tires more. It couldn't make things any worse, anyway.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 3:45 pm 
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OOOOOOOR: Everyone can chose which of the two chicanes present they take each lap.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 4:37 pm 
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oh joker laps, might be the final solution for Spain before we ditch the country away

about Leclerc and the seatbelt, could FIA punish Ferrari for lack of safety?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 5:39 pm 
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De Cesaris fan wrote:
I wouldn't mind the circuit if they just got rid of that awful chicane. It's added absolutely nothing since they started using it. It might be difficult for the cars to follow through the high speed final corners, but I think the DRS zone is long enough to make overtaking possible. The higher speeds would also push the tires more. It couldn't make things any worse, anyway.


During the quieter parts of the race I entertained myself by imagining how there could be a better layout for this track, with use of the helicopter camera shots that made me realise one of the

Extending the backstraight through to a loop tying up with that chicane to make it into a final hairpin corner then cutting straight onto the main straight seemed to be the best hope for a good race.

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:53 pm 
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LucasWheldon wrote:

about Leclerc and the seatbelt, could FIA punish Ferrari for lack of safety?


should they? Yes, they always hammer on safety so this should be a massive fine.

Could they? Yes rules stipulate you need to wear them

Will they? Hell no, its the FIA. They only cry murder regarding safety if something actually happens.


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 6:56 pm 
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webbsy wrote:
I would be damn curious to know just what has really gone down at Ferrari between Seb and the team. The relationship has just imploded at warp speed.



the ferrari is designed for leclerc's style of driving now i bet. vettel has always been reliant on an understeer-y, high downforce style car; and leclerc is a much more adaptable driver, being better able to get more out of the underporforming ferrari


i also remember reading or hearing somewhere that ferrari engineers have known by looking at the data, that vettel is not on the same level as alonso was during his time there


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 7:03 pm 
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interesting that if something had happened to Leclerc it'd be all on Ferrari, differently from other fatal crashes that in the end FIA put the blame on the driver

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:13 pm 
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trout wrote:
webbsy wrote:
I would be damn curious to know just what has really gone down at Ferrari between Seb and the team. The relationship has just imploded at warp speed.



the ferrari is designed for leclerc's style of driving now i bet. vettel has always been reliant on an understeer-y, high downforce style car; and leclerc is a much more adaptable driver, being better able to get more out of the underporforming ferrari


i also remember reading or hearing somewhere that ferrari engineers have known by looking at the data, that vettel is not on the same level as alonso was during his time there


Pretty much. Even back in 2010, Webber was beating him until they changed the way the blown diffuser worked to give the car a more planted rear end (although the more I think about it, the more I think Webber was ultimately undone in his career by the high-deg Pirellis). Seb won 4 world titles when virtually everything was stacked in his favour - with only one or two things stacked against him, he has routinely mentally fallen apart, and has never shown any growth in that area

As far as his reputation's concerned, he has been very lucky to have had the success at the beginning of his career - unlike, say, Button who had to put up with years of criticism about not being that great unless everything was right until he finally had a car to show how good he was. I don't think there's that much difference between them in terms of pure ability, but you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who says Button was better than Vettel, which is probably a bit unfair given that Button's given hell to Lewis and Alonso in the same team

And, y'know, without wishing to bang on about it, Rosberg is underrated too...


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2020 8:58 pm 
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trout wrote:
webbsy wrote:
I would be damn curious to know just what has really gone down at Ferrari between Seb and the team. The relationship has just imploded at warp speed.



the ferrari is designed for leclerc's style of driving now i bet. vettel has always been reliant on an understeer-y, high downforce style car; and leclerc is a much more adaptable driver, being better able to get more out of the underporforming ferrari


i also remember reading or hearing somewhere that ferrari engineers have known by looking at the data, that vettel is not on the same level as alonso was during his time there


he undid them so it would be all on him. :innocent:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTuTcvf-4LQ
something from the belt even flew off. Very dangerous.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 2:45 am 
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James B wrote:
trout wrote:
webbsy wrote:
I would be damn curious to know just what has really gone down at Ferrari between Seb and the team. The relationship has just imploded at warp speed.



the ferrari is designed for leclerc's style of driving now i bet. vettel has always been reliant on an understeer-y, high downforce style car; and leclerc is a much more adaptable driver, being better able to get more out of the underporforming ferrari


i also remember reading or hearing somewhere that ferrari engineers have known by looking at the data, that vettel is not on the same level as alonso was during his time there


Pretty much. Even back in 2010, Webber was beating him until they changed the way the blown diffuser worked to give the car a more planted rear end (although the more I think about it, the more I think Webber was ultimately undone in his career by the high-deg Pirellis). Seb won 4 world titles when virtually everything was stacked in his favour - with only one or two things stacked against him, he has routinely mentally fallen apart, and has never shown any growth in that area

As far as his reputation's concerned, he has been very lucky to have had the success at the beginning of his career - unlike, say, Button who had to put up with years of criticism about not being that great unless everything was right until he finally had a car to show how good he was. I don't think there's that much difference between them in terms of pure ability, but you'd be hard pushed to find anyone who says Button was better than Vettel, which is probably a bit unfair given that Button's given hell to Lewis and Alonso in the same team

And, y'know, without wishing to bang on about it, Rosberg is underrated too...


Yeah definitely Rosberg. Here's a nice video of his:


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 10:45 am 
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AWS have produced what F1 is describing an objective list of the fastest drivers since 1983:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... iH1Cz.html

Enjoying that Kovalainen and Trulli are, in the eyes of F1, officially objectively faster than Vettel


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:08 am 
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So if you include Alonso, Hulkenberg and Kubica, over half of the fastest drivers since 1983 just so happen to be current F1 drivers. Right...


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:38 am 
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James B wrote:
AWS have produced what F1 is describing an objective list of the fastest drivers since 1983:

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... iH1Cz.html

Enjoying that Kovalainen and Trulli are, in the eyes of F1, officially objectively faster than Vettel


Yeah...umm...yeah....nahh. We have all seen just how accurate and good AWS is on their performance statistics this year haven't we. Yeah......


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 11:38 am 
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It's all based around team mate comparison so the issues would be:

1) good performance against someone who's ranked highly is a bit skewed (hence Kovalainen, who performed well against Lewis over a single lap)

2) gaps between cars over a single in the past were a lot bigger than now, even though that was seen as quite a small gap at the time, e.g. Prost being half a second off Senna was probably no different to Bottas being a tenth or two off Lewis today, but if you're representing that via a flat algorithm, it doesn't really take that into account


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 4:55 pm 
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AWS did it again on using data for nothing

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 5:21 pm 
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Hacks like Kovalainen, Trulli and Hulkenberg make it onto that list but not Hakkinen who routinely destroyed Coulthard in qualifying? A fun but ultimately silly and meaningless article. This is about as pointless as their tire performance graphic.


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2020 7:14 pm 
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Karan wrote:
Hacks like Kovalainen, Trulli and Hulkenberg make it onto that list but not Hakkinen who routinely destroyed Coulthard in qualifying? A fun but ultimately silly and meaningless article. This is about as pointless as their tire performance graphic.



Yeah, where's Häkkinen? His 1st qualifying for McLaren put him ahead of Senna. Mika was often able to make great laps like at Imola 2000, Monaco and A1-ring 1999 against Schumacher on his prime while Coulthard was nowhere to be seen.

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