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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:56 am 
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I didn't remembered that 2011 was a year of Martin Brundle doing lap-by-lap announcing.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:04 am 
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Scotty wrote:
Gabriel wrote:
I didn't remembered that 2011 was a year of Martin Brundle doing lap-by-lap announcing.


As much as I like Brundle hearing him do the play-by-play is just plain wrong.


I've always considered any english commentary to be better than what we get here in Latin America.

That said, re-watching old races, I think the James Allen/Martin Brundle combo was, to me, the best one (UK). I wasn't able to experience Murray Walker as it happened, so I count him out. Jonathan Legard sounded...lame, and Croft is too shouty for my liking.

I haven't seen Channel 4 coverage though.

The SPEED guys, the Varsha/Hobbs/Matchett combo has a special place in my heart, though.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:33 pm 
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Most of us were cringing at James Allens wide-boy late 90s laddishness (10 years out of date) at the time, don't remind us of how bad he was

He was fine in the pits, but you can tell he enjoyed the strategy and pitstops way more than the on track stuff. He should've stayed there imo

Ben Edwards should've taken straight over from Murray in 2001, when they were side by side in 2002 with Ben on Bernievision it was like Night and Day
The fact ITV didn't bother trialling new commentators on every race murray missed was the start of their descent into tabloidism
"Shall we put any thought into the pre-race? No, we'll just get Tony Jardine/Mark Blundell to talk about the British driver's hopes and maybe send Louise down to a vineyard with Jarno Trulli, job done"

Thank God for the BBC

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 6:06 pm 
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still better than brazilian commentators that came from football broadcasts and had the only one job of kissing brazilian drivers' asses

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:32 pm 
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James Allen was a lot better than I gave him at the time. He had that spell where he was just trying too hard, but being a bit older and knowing more about how these things work, I imagine he was under massive pressure from ITV F1's producers to be more like that. Even ITV-era Murray dialled things up to 11, and occasionally it was really bad. Towards the end, JA toned it down a lot and was actually really good, but by then the narrative was in place. I don't think I fully appreciated him until a) I started reading his blogs and b) Legard came in

Legard was a much more experienced commentator, but he just couldn't seem to adapt to TV commentary. Aside from the moments that Scotty's referring to - and the one that always stands out for me is when Vettel crashed into Button at Spa, when he just splurged out with absolute nonsense - he used to explain everything visually, as if he was describing the race to someone that can't see. He was effectively always overcommentating. I imagine he probably ended up under a lot of pressure and there often seemed to be a little bit of tension in the box with Brundle, which was probably nothing personal and came from that

Having done a bit of co-commentary myself for uni and hospital radio, I've learned how hard it is and I have a hell of a lot more respect for the pros. Brundle did a good job as the lead commentator in 2011 but I don't think he enjoyed it himself. The rumour was that there was friction between him and Ben Edwards which is why Ben didn't come in until after Brundle left for Sky, but I'm not sure there was anything in that. Crofty's great, exactly what F1 needs, and I'll defend him to the death


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:22 pm 
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I completely forgot Legard ever existed...


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 10:04 pm 
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James B wrote:
James Allen was a lot better than I gave him at the time. He had that spell where he was just trying too hard, but being a bit older and knowing more about how these things work, I imagine he was under massive pressure from ITV F1's producers to be more like that. Even ITV-era Murray dialled things up to 11, and occasionally it was really bad. Towards the end, JA toned it down a lot and was actually really good, but by then the narrative was in place. I don't think I fully appreciated him until a) I started reading his blogs and b) Legard came in

Legard was a much more experienced commentator, but he just couldn't seem to adapt to TV commentary. Aside from the moments that Scotty's referring to - and the one that always stands out for me is when Vettel crashed into Button at Spa, when he just splurged out with absolute nonsense - he used to explain everything visually, as if he was describing the race to someone that can't see. He was effectively always overcommentating. I imagine he probably ended up under a lot of pressure and there often seemed to be a little bit of tension in the box with Brundle, which was probably nothing personal and came from that

Having done a bit of co-commentary myself for uni and hospital radio, I've learned how hard it is and I have a hell of a lot more respect for the pros. Brundle did a good job as the lead commentator in 2011 but I don't think he enjoyed it himself. The rumour was that there was friction between him and Ben Edwards which is why Ben didn't come in until after Brundle left for Sky, but I'm not sure there was anything in that. Crofty's great, exactly what F1 needs, and I'll defend him to the death


I'm probably the only one that doesn't hate Legard. I didn't like him either, he was just neutral to me, which after 7 years of Allen cringe, I found a relief.

Brundle didn't work as lead for me either, he jumps straight to analysis mode and garbles the actual action like Legard did (look at his call of Hamilton/Webber from Canada 11 for example)
He pulls it off because he's Brundle and he's immensly likeable, but he was definitely a fish out of water there
BBC Missed a trick by not having at least 1 year of Ben and Brundle in the commentary box and giving us the best commentary pairing possible

We're lucky now in that in the past we've been subjected to one terrible commentator and having to head to F1 Digital/F1 in Cinema or radio to get our good commentary fix

But now, while I much prefer Ben, I'm happy enough when I'm watching Crofty.
There's usually a couple of times a race where I roll my eyes at some attempt at "humour" but he's pretty good himself.

Interesting you've mentioned commentating, what did you commentate on? Did your local radio station let you Motorsport?

I started (live, on local radio for my first try) on Motorcycle Speedway myself (into the frying pan, but what a way to learn lol) , then 6 months later i managed to get a gig commentating on a corporate stock car day before the main oval racing in the evening.

I remember practising on the Valencia Grand Prix 2010, turning the sound off and commentating myself, and when Mark Webber flipped I swore my head off! I'm very glad that happened at that moment and not live on air lol
Luckily I was also working as a marshal at a go kart track where I could see the entire course, so I used to stand there practising commentating to myself lol
Good times.

I'd just worked up to the main gig at the oval track and it got shut down last year. RIP my career :whistling:

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Tue Jun 16, 2020 11:02 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
Interesting you've mentioned commentating, what did you commentate on? Did your local radio station let you Motorsport?


Over the course of a couple of years, I did co-comms for football, netball and rugby league matches for the Warwick-Coventry Varsity, and through a friend did a football match for Wycombe Hospital Radio as a one-off. We didn't really do any live motorsport - my only experience of that was going along to the Varsity karting event as a reporter with Tom Oliphant who was the team captain at the time

I didn't really take it any further as I wasn't brilliant at it and didn't have the patience to get good at it, but a few of the people I worked with have. I know Tim* who's a mutual friend/acquaintance of ours is still plugging away on local radio in Birmingham, and fair play to him for that

*For the wider audience, this is a guy who goes by the name "Tim Senna" as a radio presenter despite knowing very little about F1, because he watched the Senna documentary and was inspired by it. He used to lean quite heavily on me for F1 knowledge when we used to do radio shows together, but he's much better at radio than me


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:58 am 
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Still no news about tonight's race, have they stopped the F1 Rewind?


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Jean Alesi with one of the worst bad beats in F1 history


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:10 pm 
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There's a huge selection of full races on that guy's channel. :yes:

Alesi really deserved to win a few more races in his career. Monza 1995 was incredibly unlucky for Ferrari.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 7:06 pm 
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James B wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
Interesting you've mentioned commentating, what did you commentate on? Did your local radio station let you Motorsport?


Over the course of a couple of years, I did co-comms for football, netball and rugby league matches for the Warwick-Coventry Varsity, and through a friend did a football match for Wycombe Hospital Radio as a one-off. We didn't really do any live motorsport - my only experience of that was going along to the Varsity karting event as a reporter with Tom Oliphant who was the team captain at the time

I didn't really take it any further as I wasn't brilliant at it and didn't have the patience to get good at it, but a few of the people I worked with have. I know Tim* who's a mutual friend/acquaintance of ours is still plugging away on local radio in Birmingham, and fair play to him for that

*For the wider audience, this is a guy who goes by the name "Tim Senna" as a radio presenter despite knowing very little about F1, because he watched the Senna documentary and was inspired by it. He used to lean quite heavily on me for F1 knowledge when we used to do radio shows together, but he's much better at radio than me


Tim's more interested in the Indie Music scene these days, and his obsession with making a sport show for Radio 1
Not sure if he's doing anything with commentary any more tbh, maybe on Switch radio.

I just hope my career isn't over before it began, I met Dave Vass at Hednesford and Birmingham just over a year ago and he is the one that introduced both Jonny Palmer and Jack Leslie to David Addison (who really is like the pimp for National Level commentators I hear, if you want a circuit gig, they basically offer everything to Addison and then he doles out the ones he doesn't want to do. Fair play really, he's committed and talented enough to have earnt that, even though he'll never top his commentary on the Havoc tapes from my youth imo :mrgreen: )
Was hoping for some of that myself since both Jonny Palmer and Jack Nicholls started their commentary careers at Wheels and now look at them.
He also told me how much you actually earn for a 2 day meet at Brands or a Le Mans week with Radio Le Mans and its enough to make your eyes water.

But since we're losing ovals hand over fist atm, the chances to work your way in are getting more and more limited.

De Cesaris fan wrote:
There's a huge selection of full races on that guy's channel. :yes:

Alesi really deserved to win a few more races in his career. Monza 1995 was incredibly unlucky for Ferrari.


There's really quite a lot of old full races on Youtube atm
During lockdown I've properly fell in love with the 80s era of F1, it was almost similar to now, in a way, with pitting for fresher tyres leading to a lot of races where faster cars are behind slower ones and having to make the pass. (albiet the pit stops are optional so there's always that element of wondering if they're a good idea or not)
The cars look great and the only thing holding it back is the TV coverage sadly, which only wants to focus on the leader and finds it hard to capture a crash or overtake despite them being in abundance in that era (unless it's imola, for some reason, where everything is caught)

It really drives it home to me how much they screwed up the sport for 1994. Sure, they were probably onto something with banning the driver aids that had got a bit OTT, but Refuelling really ruins the flow of these races and brings unnecessary danger as well as boredom

The worst thing about it is it takes tyres completely out of the equation. When tyres are new, they don't have much effect because the cars have a full fuel load but then when the fuel load burns off and the car is lighter, the tyres are too old to help the drivers race each other.

When they occasionally throw out considering bringing back refuelling as a headline to distract us from something else, those in favour of it should sit through a few late 80s/early 90s races and compare them to an average late 90s/early 2000s race and see the difference for themselves

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:43 pm 
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Agree with you completely about refuelling. There's always a loud calling on social media to re-introduce it, which I don't understand. I can only guess that people never experienced that era, or they look back at it with rose tinted glasses. I'll always be fond of the 90s and 2000s because it's what I grew up with, but it seemed obvious to me that the racing improved when it was banned. You still have tyre strategy adding an extra element.

And yeah, the 1980s directing was frustrating. Watched Monaco 1984 recently, and you never actually see how Mansell ends up in the lead, ahead of Prost. Sometimes it seemed like they could only show a replay of something that happened live on screen. There wasn't the ability to show replays from other angles.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:16 pm 
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I was watching Monza 1983 some days ago, and it's frustrating how they simply didn't show anything happening beyond top-6.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2020 9:51 pm 
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Directing was only any good from the late 90s, I'd say. It's why I don't watch many old races from before 1990 - it just gets bogged down in terrible directing with no information on the screen. It's not that the races themselves are bad - they're just not presented well

It's one of those where we don't realise what we've got today - the occasional error aside, the directing these days is fantastic, although I do think we're sometimes bombarded with too much information and things could be left to the imagination a bit more


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 2:41 am 
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Some of F1's worst years were in the refuelling era. It didn't add much.

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:17 am 
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Scotty wrote:
I remember the issues not long ago with the Japanese GP because they still had their own TV direction whereas every other race has universal direction from one source.

Monaco TV still does their own race. If you take a look at the older races, there's been no change in direction, it's shot in exactly the same fashion as it was 30 years ago.


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2020 4:45 pm 
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I hate how they handle things today, specially with team radio. When it was novelty was ok, now is just an open window for driver whining "bwaaa blue flags, he hitted me"

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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 10:39 am 
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15 years ago today, this farce took place


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 Post subject: Re: F1 Classics thread
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2020 2:09 pm 
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