2020 Formula One Random Discussion Thread

Juihi · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:54 am

micha wrote:

Juihi wrote:

The only thing I can see is Red Bull luring another manufacturer into F1, but who's going to want to join with the ridiculous engine regs we have at the moment? Could this be what triggers the FIA to finally dump this engine formula in a bid to attract more? Or does Red Bull go into engine development themselves?

a new manufacturer that has to produce an engine in little over 14 months? Not gonna happen.

Pretty much, it's highlighting the weakness of the current engine regs, look how long it took Honda to get competitive

Gaara · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:46 am

It's Renault or or nothing. And Renault has those withdraw rumours following them around.

FIA really have to get their heads out their arses and bring in regs that'll attract new engine manufacturers. Cheaper, greener and closer to what they have in road cars.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:52 am

micha wrote:

a new manufacturer that has to produce an engine in little over 14 months? Not gonna happen.

And even hypothetically speaking, what would that new manufacturer be? Who has enough capacity and modern facilities for F1 engines even if there was money and interest beside facilities and schedule wouldn't be an obstacle?

Even if Honda would give away their design, there would be only a handful of companies that could even in theory become a engine/Power unit/hybrid supplier. Toyota, VAG and Peugeot, maybe Ilmor and Cosworth.

But realistically, no one.

Well done FIA, you've played yourself.

RtN · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:58 am

The engine rules are in place until 2026.

And what exactly are you going to change? Electric? Can't do that as Agag and co. have an exclusive contract for 20 years, and current electric powertrains on F1 circuits would look horrific. Hydrogen? Possible, but the technology is currently underdeveloped and it would be expensive to force development, which defeats the purpose. The same as now but with some spec components? Slightly more useful than shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic.

RtN · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 12:02 pm

Also consider that under the new Concorde Ferrari still have their veto. So it's got to be acceptable to them.

Fabs · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:36 pm

Saw a proposition from Scarbs on twitter that they could have a spec ICE and have manufacturers develop the other systems.

Sounds plausible, but as you say: other manufacturers have to agree with new proposals.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:44 pm

I would LOVE to see Cyril's face right now knowing Christian has to come crawling back to him

Also hope Netflix are filming this too :whistling:

But yeah, that might keep Renault in F1 as Red Bull are going to have to pay through the nose for their engines.

RtN · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:54 pm

Renault are obliged to give Red Bull engines if Red Bull ask for them. No-one from Red Bull has to beg, grovel or publicly apologise for anything that was said in the past.

Marko could call Abiteboul's mother a common whore and it would not change Renault's current obligations.

Red Bull, if they wanted to, could make it very simple for Liberty - 'we will pay $5 million for both the Renault engines and the right to rename them. If you refuse, we will leave the sport legally via the termination clause. We will also refuse to sell our teams or our entries to anyone else, and will leave you with 16 cars. Your move.'

Anyway, there are already reports that they will not ask Renault, Ferrari or Mercedes for engines at all, and that plan A is to buy the designs and set up their own manufacturing.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 4:49 pm

well Red Bull could pick the Honda operation and work for themselves

or they can demand Renault a contract with a condition that Abiteboul out, but I guess they're not in position to demand conditions

James B · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:27 pm

RtN wrote:

Anyway, there are already reports that they will not ask Renault, Ferrari or Mercedes for engines at all, and that plan A is to buy the designs and set up their own manufacturing.

Didn't get chance to post this morning when this news broke but this is what I'd have suggested would be the most likely outcome. They're good engines so if Uncle Dietrich is happy to stump up the cash, it makes sense

It's a shame to lose Honda again but every time they leave, it's always in the knowledge that you know they'll be back in about 5 years like the ex that just wants to give it another try

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:34 pm

James B wrote:

It's a shame to lose Honda again but every time they leave, it's always in the knowledge that you know they'll be back in about 5 years like the ex that just wants to give it another try

just like Renault. But it seems that each time they come back is for worse

deggis · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:35 pm

RtN wrote:

The engine rules are in place until 2026.

And what exactly are you going to change? Electric? Can't do that as Agag and co. have an exclusive contract for 20 years, and current electric powertrains on F1 circuits would look horrific. Hydrogen? Possible, but the technology is currently underdeveloped and it would be expensive to force development, which defeats the purpose. The same as now but with some spec components? Slightly more useful than shuffling deckchairs on the Titanic.

That FE exclusivity paper can be probobably ripped apart if it is a real thing at all, but the bigger issue before that is that F1 can't go fully electric yet without halving race distances and reducing the peformance level of the cars a lot because the EV tech isn't there yet. So full EV is not relevant for the next 1-2 regulation cycles.

James B · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 9:58 pm

LucasWheldon wrote:

James B wrote:

It's a shame to lose Honda again but every time they leave, it's always in the knowledge that you know they'll be back in about 5 years like the ex that just wants to give it another try

just like Renault. But it seems that each time they come back is for worse

Hey, they've won more races this time than they did last time...

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:06 pm

indeed, I guess they cannot outsorce those engines from Mugen like in the good old days

deggis · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:13 pm

James B wrote:

RtN wrote:

Anyway, there are already reports that they will not ask Renault, Ferrari or Mercedes for engines at all, and that plan A is to buy the designs and set up their own manufacturing.

Didn't get chance to post this morning when this news broke but this is what I'd have suggested would be the most likely outcome. They're good engines so if Uncle Dietrich is happy to stump up the cash, it makes sense

No link was posted, what reports? Not really sure how is this plausible at all in short term. Afaik the F1 PUs are developed in Japan, and those human resources/departments/facilites are probably not for sale. RB currently doesn't make any kind of engines so probably don't have any facilites for it either and now they're suddenly going to start making these highly advanved race engines?

RtN · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:28 pm

https://f1-insider.com/f1/f1-honda-aus- ... igenregie/

I imagine that if they were to buy the designs then they would give them to Mario Illen as before.

cookie · PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:11 pm

Honda, what a bunch of idiots. They are making the same mistake as in 2008. They quit just before new rules come in, Red Bull will become world champion in 2022 with Mercedes or Renault engines. Just like Brawn in 2009.

Fabs · PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 8:55 am

cookie wrote:

Honda, what a bunch of idiots. They are making the same mistake as in 2008. They quit just before new rules come in, Red Bull will become world champion in 2022 with Mercedes or Renault engines. Just like Brawn in 2009.

lol no

webbsy · PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:40 am

So now we know why Horner was pushing so hard for the break clause and the FIA accepted. They both knew this was coming.

But shock horror, who could ever have foreseen that when you make the most complicated and expensive engines in the sports history, then impose massive restrictions on development, essentially locking in performance for the life span of the regs, that maybe, just maybe no new manufactures want to join???? And then maybe, just maybe, one of the current ones decides to pull the pin? And then impose a $200 million non refundable fee payable to the competitors for a new entrant, locking out any new team that is interested??

Wow....I totally did not see that coming at all. Just like...wow...total surprise.....

In short, F1 is fucked and that pathetic FE series may just be the main event.

webbsy · PostPosted: Sat Oct 03, 2020 11:06 am

Cyril still throwing shade lol.

Quote:

Asked if a reunion with Red Bull would be awkward given their shared history, Abiteboul replied: “I think so, but we need obviously to look at the sport. And I think we are still very far away from having to possibly cross that bridge. I can’t imagine that Red Bull would not have some plan in the background.

“Clearly they must have been aware of this, and Helmut [Marko] and Christian are full of moves and solutions. I don’t expect that we will be their Plan A!”

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/rena ... n=widget-1

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2020 Formula One Random Discussion Thread

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