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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 9:11 pm 
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Formula 1 seems to be going more like typical Indycar with races routinely getting influenced by SC's, whereas Indycar seems to be going more like typical Formula 1 in having less SC's.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:04 pm 
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They just need to close the pits under VSC (unless you have been involved in the incident). Under SC, the pits should remain close until everyone queues up behind the Safety Car.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:08 pm 
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You can't pit under VSC in F2 so why not extend it to F1?


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:39 pm 
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Gaara wrote:
You can't pit under VSC in F2 so why not extend it to F1?


That's because the first time they ever used it a guy who was running 15th stayed out when everyone else pitted and then the VSC came out and he inherited a win
OK, it was monaco so that could only happen there, but they were pretty swift on dealing with the problem then

I don't get people's problems with the SC, it's part of racing and from a marshal's point of view, it's much much safer to clear an incident when the pack is bunched up on the other side of the racetrack
Not only does the VSC make the racing more boring but imagine having to go on track with the cars still circulating, albiet at a reduced pace but still enough to hurt like hell if one of them suddenly had a technical problem and veered at you. And drivers that are more concerned with looking at their delta times and maintaining a gap than respecting where you are on track with them

It was a knee jerk, unneeded reaction to Bianchi's accident where the FIA had to be shown to do SOMETHING, even though it was their lack of SC deployment that season that finally came back to bite them that caused that incident

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 10:48 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
Gaara wrote:
You can't pit under VSC in F2 so why not extend it to F1?


That's because the first time they ever used it a guy who was running 15th stayed out when everyone else pitted and then the VSC came out and he inherited a win
OK, it was monaco so that could only happen there, but they were pretty swift on dealing with the problem then

I don't get people's problems with the SC, it's part of racing and from a marshal's point of view, it's much much safer to clear an incident when the pack is bunched up on the other side of the racetrack
Not only does the VSC make the racing more boring but imagine having to go on track with the cars still circulating, albiet at a reduced pace but still enough to hurt like hell if one of them suddenly had a technical problem and veered at you. And drivers that are more concerned with looking at their delta times and maintaining a gap than respecting where you are on track with them

It was a knee jerk, unneeded reaction to Bianchi's accident where the FIA had to be shown to do SOMETHING, even though it was their lack of SC deployment that season that finally came back to bite them that caused that incident


Same thing if you close the pits under an SC. When they left the pits open they all rushed back, hence why they put in the delta times so ends up being no different to a VSC.

If it's something that a marshal can run out and pick up, why waste laps behind an SC? You just want them to artificially bunch up the field.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 30, 2019 11:56 pm 
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anything that can make a Racing Point or a Haas win out of nowhere is very welcome

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 1:20 am 
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Gaara wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
Gaara wrote:
You can't pit under VSC in F2 so why not extend it to F1?


That's because the first time they ever used it a guy who was running 15th stayed out when everyone else pitted and then the VSC came out and he inherited a win
OK, it was monaco so that could only happen there, but they were pretty swift on dealing with the problem then

I don't get people's problems with the SC, it's part of racing and from a marshal's point of view, it's much much safer to clear an incident when the pack is bunched up on the other side of the racetrack
Not only does the VSC make the racing more boring but imagine having to go on track with the cars still circulating, albiet at a reduced pace but still enough to hurt like hell if one of them suddenly had a technical problem and veered at you. And drivers that are more concerned with looking at their delta times and maintaining a gap than respecting where you are on track with them

It was a knee jerk, unneeded reaction to Bianchi's accident where the FIA had to be shown to do SOMETHING, even though it was their lack of SC deployment that season that finally came back to bite them that caused that incident


Because marshal's lives are more important than the arbitrary gaps between racing cars that, if they're actually in the right order, speed wise, they can build up again?

NASCAR takes it too far on its road courses but I'd still rather that than lose one marshal to shit like we saw in Hockenhiem 14 or Nurburgring 13 where F1 came so close to flattening a few.
Same thing if you close the pits under an SC. When they left the pits open they all rushed back, hence why they put in the delta times so ends up being no different to a VSC.

If it's something that a marshal can run out and pick up, why waste laps behind an SC? You just want them to artificially bunch up the field.

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:57 am 
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#marshallivesmatter

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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 3:57 pm 
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Seriously though, the race director has all the data. They know the gaps and can direct a marshal to grab the debris in those gaps. They're able to talk to drivers over the radio, even the teams themselves warn the drivers where the incident is. Plus Vettel's car was in the runoff, they didn't need a big enough gap to remove it. The VSC is very good for what can be cleared up quickly rather than wasting laps behind an SC.

Quick clean up, VSC
Something that takes longer, SC
Real big mess, red flag


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 5:25 pm 
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Rain: too dangerous, pack up and go home


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PostPosted: Tue Oct 01, 2019 11:34 pm 
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I don't get why Vettel's car even needed a VSC. It was right next to an opening well away from the action. Did they even show his car being recovered? Was it just pushed back in that opening or did they require a tractor? If they required a vehicle then fair enough but if not then it was just overkill.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:19 am 
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webbsy wrote:
I don't get why Vettel's car even needed a VSC. It was right next to an opening well away from the action. Did they even show his car being recovered? Was it just pushed back in that opening or did they require a tractor? If they required a vehicle then fair enough but if not then it was just overkill.


Presumably the car was still live, i.e. not safe to move initially. Plus that run-off area didn't look massive


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 9:51 pm 
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Vettel jumped off in a rather silly way, to make sure he never made contact with the car and the ground at the same time. So possibly an electricity failure, and possibly dangerous for marshalls to touch the car immediately.


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PostPosted: Wed Oct 02, 2019 11:29 pm 
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so electricity is slowly killing the sport we love

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:23 am 
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Gabriel wrote:
They just need to close the pits under VSC (unless you have been involved in the incident). Under SC, the pits should remain close until everyone queues up behind the Safety Car.

Only problem I have with this is that not every driver has a dedicated pit crew. Even in Indycar, if you don't stop with all the field, you lose crazy amounts of track position pitting a lap later.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 7:48 am 
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codename_47 wrote:
Coldtyre wrote:
Charles, here's a hint you young gullible sweetheart: want to keep the lead, cover your goddamn inside line at the start like a fucking race driver.


It was a team decision to run the start exactly the way they did. They made sure before the race Charles would give the tow to Vettel to prevent Lewis from getting it (better Leclerc tows Vettel into a 1-2 than end up 2nd to Lewis)

The team decision was not exactly the way they did. They asked him to tow Vettel past Hamilton, not to swap position, and Vettel getting past was just a byproduct of that. My point is that once he gave him the tow to get past Hamilton and he was in his gearbox, it was time to switch to the inside line and protect his lead instead of finding himself in the situation to have to beg for it during the race while in an inferior track position. I know, easier said than done in the heat of the action, but that's precisely why this kind of tactics should not be used in the first place, too many variables and unknowns at the start. The plan could've easily backfired and handed Hamilton the lead (or Charles' second place) if he had a slightly better start or a better exit out of 2.

My second point is also that I don't give a crap about corporate decisions. Since when as spectators do we have to be that understanding? I'm not a pundit licking F1's ass mate, I don't care. I judge Leclerc's actions purely from a racecraft point of view, and opening up the inside for the lead at turn 1 to a rival like a bitch is no behaviour I respect, teammate or not. Valtteri vs Lewis at Baku is how you do it and what I want to see personally.


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 03, 2019 2:09 pm 
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Coldtyre wrote:
codename_47 wrote:
Coldtyre wrote:
Charles, here's a hint you young gullible sweetheart: want to keep the lead, cover your goddamn inside line at the start like a fucking race driver.


It was a team decision to run the start exactly the way they did. They made sure before the race Charles would give the tow to Vettel to prevent Lewis from getting it (better Leclerc tows Vettel into a 1-2 than end up 2nd to Lewis)

The team decision was not exactly the way they did. They asked him to tow Vettel past Hamilton, not to swap position, and Vettel getting past was just a byproduct of that. My point is that once he gave him the tow to get past Hamilton and he was in his gearbox, it was time to switch to the inside line and protect his lead instead of finding himself in the situation to have to beg for it during the race while in an inferior track position. I know, easier said than done in the heat of the action, but that's precisely why this kind of tactics should not be used in the first place, too many variables and unknowns at the start. The plan could've easily backfired and handed Hamilton the lead (or Charles' second place) if he had a slightly better start or a better exit out of 2.

My second point is also that I don't give a crap about corporate decisions. Since when as spectators do we have to be that understanding? I'm not a pundit licking F1's ass mate, I don't care. I judge Leclerc's actions purely from a racecraft point of view, and opening up the inside for the lead at turn 1 to a rival like a bitch is no behaviour I respect, teammate or not. Valtteri vs Lewis at Baku is how you do it and what I want to see personally.

Didn't Leclerc leave the inside line open exactly to create a better tow? Take the longer line to create a longer tow. I really believe he did that on purpose, not because he lacks certain driver skills.


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