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| Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=10762 |
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| Author: | Karan [ Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Good job FIA. Precedent set. |
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| Author: | LucasWheldon [ Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
if I was a steward and an incident with contact didn't had any damage caused is no further action. Is so simple, this just fuel dirty politics plaguing the sport |
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| Author: | Schumifan [ Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
micha wrote: Schumifan wrote: The right decision. But makes Vettel's penalty look even more ridiculous Well vettel made an error and left the track. Verstappen made a rough pass. Not completely the same Right. Verstappen's move was deliberate, Vettel's was accidental |
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| Author: | Karan [ Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Can't look past what a massive result this is for Honda after the horrific 14/15/16/17 seasons, with their reputation damaged and almost scrapping the project altogether, to come back and win against Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault. |
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| Author: | codename_47 [ Sun Jun 30, 2019 8:55 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Schumifan wrote: micha wrote: Schumifan wrote: The right decision. But makes Vettel's penalty look even more ridiculous Well vettel made an error and left the track. Verstappen made a rough pass. Not completely the same Right. Verstappen's move was deliberate, Vettel's was accidental The part where Vettel checked his mirrors and moved further over into Lewis was deliberate, no matter what he says. |
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| Author: | LucasWheldon [ Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Karan wrote: Can't look past what a massive result this is for Honda after the horrific 14/15/16/17 seasons, with their reputation damaged and almost scrapping the project altogether, to come back and win against Mercedes, Ferrari and Renault. interesting to see that all the races Honda and Mugen won after they departed from McLaren in 1992 were also great races or with epic drives, like Monaco 96, Spa 98, Monza and Magny Cours 99 and Hungary 2006 |
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| Author: | Omega [ Sun Jun 30, 2019 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
All in the rain (except Monza 99) where frontrunners eliminated themselves (except Hungary 06, they already did it on Friday). |
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| Author: | mclaren2008 [ Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
I tell ya, the best races happen on the tracks with simple layouts and short lap times. |
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| Author: | Soul Reaver [ Sun Jun 30, 2019 11:37 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
micha wrote: Schumifan wrote: The right decision. But makes Vettel's penalty look even more ridiculous Well vettel made an error and left the track. Verstappen made a rough pass. Not completely the same Yeah, indeed even even more ridiculous. Honest mistake vs dirty driving.  Verstappen should have been punished the first time he moved under braking. Now they just created a monster that boiled at the worst way. Murphy law... Any decision made by Fia today would have been wrong. |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:36 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Pass was hard but good racing...but seriously, what the fuck was Leclerc doing? He didn't cover the inside and then almost ran himself off the track by going too deep. He was trying to get the wide run and drive down to the next corner, but forgot to actually cover the corner. Could Verstappen have pulled tighter in the corner? Yes. Should Verstappen have had the chance to? No. Was hoping that Charles would win it but he totally blew it. Even blind Freddy could see that Max was going to chuck it down the inside. |
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| Author: | EAS [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
micha wrote: Schumifan wrote: The right decision. But makes Vettel's penalty look even more ridiculous Well vettel made an error and left the track. Verstappen made a rough pass. Not completely the same If poor driving is punishable (instead of recklessness), Vettel's recent spins should have awarded him a race ban. But it's not the point punishing a driver for making errors. But we are not talking about a Ragunathan or Ide here. |
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| Author: | EAS [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 1:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Warning! Huge irony on the way! |
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| Author: | Philthy82 [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:53 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Completely taking the drivers involved out of it (as I really wanted to see LeClerc win), I always find the discussion about racing room in F1 interesting. The main argument to justify the move Max pulled was that it's ruthless, hard racing and F1 has always been about that sort of racing. That might be true, but imagine F1 started demanding that racing room be left when two cars are alongside eachother, and even penalising situations where a driver pushes another driver off track. How would that result in anything other than better racing and a more earned victory? You could see side by side racing (when this shitty rules package occasionally allows it to happen) continuing for lap after lap, NASCAR style. It seems to me like accepting this sort of move just makes overtakes even more predictable, and reduces the opportunity to see battles between late braking and better power out of the corner. Every overtake literally becomes a matter of getting your car to the apex before the other guy. It's a bit like the argument over team orders. I just don't get why anyone would defend it as tradition when the far bigger issue is it robs the audience of a better fight. |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:11 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Philthy82 wrote: Completely taking the drivers involved out of it (as I really wanted to see LeClerc win), I always find the discussion about racing room in F1 interesting. The main argument to justify the move Max pulled was that it's ruthless, hard racing and F1 has always been about that sort of racing. That might be true, but imagine F1 started demanding that racing room be left when two cars are alongside eachother, and even penalising situations where a driver pushes another driver off track. How would that result in anything other than better racing and a more earned victory? You could see side by side racing (when this shitty rules package occasionally allows it to happen) continuing for lap after lap, NASCAR style. It seems to me like accepting this sort of move just makes overtakes even more predictable, and reduces the opportunity to see battles between late braking and better power out of the corner. Every overtake literally becomes a matter of getting your car to the apex before the other guy. It's a bit like the argument over team orders. I just don't get why anyone would defend it as tradition when the far bigger issue is it robs the audience of a better fight. This is the FIA. So you would end up with this.... |
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| Author: | micha [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 7:32 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Schumifan wrote: micha wrote: Schumifan wrote: The right decision. But makes Vettel's penalty look even more ridiculous Well vettel made an error and left the track. Verstappen made a rough pass. Not completely the same Right. Verstappen's move was deliberate, Vettel's was accidental wrong, according to the stewards. Vettel steered to the right, effectively blocking Hamilton and potentially pushing him into the wall, after regaining control. At least thats how the stewards ruled it and thats what gave him the penalty. Vettel made an error and then tried to push someone of the track (again, according to the stewards) while Verstappen made a pass for the lead. I do think that if this would have happened in lap 3 instead of 2-3 laps before the finish the stewards would have handed him with a penalty. |
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| Author: | Vassago [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 8:51 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
LucasWheldon wrote: if I was a steward and an incident with contact didn't had any damage caused is no further action. Is so simple, this just fuel dirty politics plaguing the sport I read sth on twitter and I agree with this 100%. The fact they needed 2 hours to make a decision tells me the debate wasn't about this one overtaking attempt but about the current & future state of F1. Without the Canada backlash, without the total boredom of a season they would have given Max that dumb 5 sec penalty IMO. But they just couldn't. They couldn't ruin the best race of a completely forgettable season with another penalty. Forget the fact it would have been against a Red Bull driver on a Red Bull-owned circuit. This was about F1 in general since these stewards and people sitting in the exec offices ain't that dumb. They know what's going on. F1 has reached the bottom of the barrel when it comes to excitement. I wouldn't be surprised if they go lenient on driver penalties from 2020 onwards again. |
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| Author: | Fabs [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 10:43 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
This was a good race |
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| Author: | James B [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
I'd forgotten Rosberg was penalised for pulling the same move on Lewis 3 years ago, even after losing out with damage himself The man himself thinks they should have given Max a penalty |
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| Author: | Coldtyre [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
Philthy82 wrote: Completely taking the drivers involved out of it (as I really wanted to see LeClerc win), I always find the discussion about racing room in F1 interesting. The main argument to justify the move Max pulled was that it's ruthless, hard racing and F1 has always been about that sort of racing. That might be true, but imagine F1 started demanding that racing room be left when two cars are alongside eachother, and even penalising situations where a driver pushes another driver off track. How would that result in anything other than better racing and a more earned victory? You could see side by side racing (when this shitty rules package occasionally allows it to happen) continuing for lap after lap, NASCAR style. It seems to me like accepting this sort of move just makes overtakes even more predictable, and reduces the opportunity to see battles between late braking and better power out of the corner. Every overtake literally becomes a matter of getting your car to the apex before the other guy. It's a bit like the argument over team orders. I just don't get why anyone would defend it as tradition when the far bigger issue is it robs the audience of a better fight. Your final point is how 90% of overtakes are made in racing. The occasional side-by-side doesn't happen because the rules force it to, it happens but because of a special set of circumstances between corner radius, grip available on track, and the defending driver forcing the attacker to remain inside. The only difference between the past and nowadays, and which made this become a huge issue in the recent years, is the presence of tarmac run-off at exit curb. It makes it tempting for the outside driver to stay there, even if they know they will be falling behind or running out of road by the time the corner will end. They used to concede the corner more systematically in that situation and nobody ever complained. Legislating on this, would remove that sweet grey area where you can outsmart someone that has a punctual advantage over you (in this corner, the outside line being faster at exit as shown the lap before. One driver seems to have learned something from the lap before, the other didn't). Enforcing a rule against these tactics would simply destroy a whole part of what it is to be a RACE driver, not just a robot that sticks to target laptimes: car positioning relative to the track and making it hard for your opponent to defend. Why not just paint two lanes in each corner, and have drivers commit to one, like they're racing toy slot electric cars? That would be 100% fair to all, but I'm not sure it's what anyone here wants to see. I am happy that there are different opinions about what racing should be. I am annoyed however that anyone would want the FIA involved in that discussion, through official rules about how an overtaking maneuver should look like. It's like you've given up, and are calling for even more interference from the officiating body into on-track battles, with a constant ominous threat of playing on the result as displayed on the screen. That bothers me to say the least. |
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| Author: | LucasWheldon [ Mon Jul 01, 2019 4:05 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Formula 1 myWorld Großer Preis von Österreich 2019 |
James B wrote: I'd forgotten Rosberg was penalised for pulling the same move on Lewis 3 years ago, even after losing out with damage himself The man himself thinks they should have given Max a penalty I can see him as the next Jacques Villeneuve, but that actually decided to stop on top |
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