TBK-Light.com

Motorsport videos and chat.
It is currently Fri May 03, 2024 8:14 pm

All times are UTC+01:00




Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 296 posts ]  Go to page Previous 111 12 13 14 15 Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:21 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 3:49 pm
Posts: 5790
Location: NRW
Has thanked: 2759 times
Been thanked: 474 times
codename_47 wrote:
Patrick Head came out with the data telemetry at some point early in that season that proved they weren't braking any earlier than any other car. If i find the time later on I'll try and wade through old articles to find the one where he said that.


Autosport wrote:
Williams has discounted suggestions that it is to blame for the high number of rear-end collisions involving its cars.

Juan Pablo Montoya was taken out from the lead of the Brazilian Grand Prix by Jos Verstappen's Arrows, which he had just lapped, while team mate Ralf Schumacher was rammed from behind by Ferrari's Rubens Barrichello at the same spot early in the race. Schumacher's car was also rear-ended by Jacques Villeneuve's BAR in the Australian Grand Prix, an accident which resulted in the death of a spectator marshal.

According to Williams's chief operations engineer, Sam Michael, there is nothing special about its braking system or the slipstream that the car gives.

"We've looked at all the data, checked the braking distances, the tyre differences, our top speeds relative to the others to try and find a reason," he said. "But there's no consistent pattern. We've just got to put it down to coincidence and bad luck.

"We've been hit by three different drivers and I can't put anything down to consistent reasons. I know there's been talk that maybe our slipstream is pulling people in, because of our top speed, but it's not to the level where it would make a difference.

"We've looked at the brakes, too, and it can't be that because Juan Pablo got past Michael [Schumacher] from quite a distance back in Brazil, and Ralf overtook 10 cars in 30 laps. We don't think it's a problem," added Michael.

Michael Schumacher, who followed Montoya for 25 laps around Interlagos, said the Williams didn't have a noticeable advantage under braking.

"Maybe I wasn't close enough to get a tow, but I didn't notice anything special," said the reigning world champion. "For me it's more a question of the men involved rather than some system."

Arrows, meanwhile, has withdrawn its appeal over the US$15,000 penalty handed to Verstappen for the Interlagos incident with Montoya.


Top
PostPosted: Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:30 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:34 pm
Posts: 2347
Has thanked: 14 times
Been thanked: 24 times
Think I'm in the minority here that Verstappens post race actions were not acceptable. I think there's a difference between getting aggressive straight after an incident, compared to what Verstappen did when he'd had well over 30min to calm down and still made it physical. Can only assume the stewards didn't see his post race interview where he showed no remorse and thought shoving Ocon was fine, off that I think he deserved a much harsher punishment

Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk


Top
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:17 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:21 am
Posts: 6407
Has thanked: 410 times
Been thanked: 653 times
Apparently Gasly also threw a hissyfit when asked to let his teammate by, and flat refused to: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... s/3212813/

Next year at Red Bull is going to be some great reality TV.

_________________
Image


Top
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:23 am 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:32 pm
Posts: 12386
Location: Braga/Porto - Portugal
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 273 times
Philthy82 wrote:
Apparently Gasly also threw a hissyfit when asked to let his teammate by, and flat refused to: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... s/3212813/

Next year at Red Bull is going to be some great reality TV.

2:25 in this video, which also features Verstappen being told that Ocon was on fresh rubber.



Top
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:41 am 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:20 pm
Posts: 16730
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 1170 times
Verstappen only has himself to blame for losing that race - doesn't matter how stupid you think Ocon's move was, it was legal, and Verstappen had nothing to gain from defending against it. He knew Ocon was there, I mean he even took a defensive line into turn 1, so the fact he turned across his nose in turn 2 and acted all oblivious baffles me. If he'd let Ocon go he had that race wrapped up.

Enjoying all the drama though. "Public service" for that shove, which F1 have posted all over their social media channels, is stupid as shit.


Top
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:36 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 8766
Location: Paris
Has thanked: 617 times
Been thanked: 836 times
Scotty wrote:
Any journalist who goes to Jacques Villeneuve for his opinion on F1 should not be allowed back into the paddock.

He just says divisive/controversial/anti-establishment garbage just to keep his name relevant.

Couldn't agree more, as a Canal+ viewer where Jacques is co-commentator. We put up with him about every rac, except a few where Franck Montagny takes over (a much more positive guy overall, and a more recent driver who actually brings his racecraft and technical knowledge about modern cars into it).

I like Jacques' brutal honesty, he tells it as it is, you've got to give him that, and it makes for fun live entertainment when someone or a team does something completely stupid. But it gets old quickly. You can even hear between the lines that the main commentator, a competent journalist, has trouble putting up with him.


Top
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:42 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 8766
Location: Paris
Has thanked: 617 times
Been thanked: 836 times
gd49 wrote:
Think I'm in the minority here that Verstappens post race actions were not acceptable. I think there's a difference between getting aggressive straight after an incident, compared to what Verstappen did when he'd had well over 30min to calm down and still made it physical. Can only assume the stewards didn't see his post race interview where he showed no remorse and thought shoving Ocon was fine, off that I think he deserved a much harsher punishment

Fully agree here and I don't think you're in the minority. Nobody here could shove a coworker like that, after said coworker has already been punished by management, and expect to get away without a reprimand at least or being written up. Heck, if you did it in front of your company's clients and during a public live filming, that's grounds for termination.

Even if we keep it to sports and even in the crook-filled sport that is football, you get red carded if you shove people even when you're the victim - including if you're doing it in the heat of the moment.


Top
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:13 pm 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:06 pm
Posts: 256
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 2 times
https://twitter.com/Pereira_FC/status/1 ... 9362667520

Has this video been posted? I completely changed my mind after watching it..


Top
PostPosted: Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:18 pm 
Offline
Gold Member
Gold Member
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 30, 2008 2:20 am
Posts: 2126
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Has thanked: 199 times
Been thanked: 197 times
As correctly pointed out by Lewis, Max had everything to lose there even though he was fully aware that Ocon was coming steaming down the outside with his huge speed advantage.
Ocon was well ahead going into the braking zone of T1 yet Max feels the need to stick his nose in and try to fend off Ocon. Why? All he had to do was back off a bit, let Ocon through and lose minimal time to Lewis and come out unscathed. Yet he brakes later and then turns into T2 basically expecting Ocon to magically disappear even though Ocon already had the majority of his car outside the white line. IMO all of these little incidents point back to the fact that Max believes too much of his own hype and already seems to consider himself as F1's next GOAT.



Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:17 am 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Sun Aug 31, 2008 4:21 am
Posts: 6407
Has thanked: 410 times
Been thanked: 653 times
Karan wrote:
As correctly pointed out by Lewis, Max had everything to lose there even though he was fully aware that Ocon was coming steaming down the outside with his huge speed advantage.
Ocon was well ahead going into the braking zone of T1 yet Max feels the need to stick his nose in and try to fend off Ocon. Why? All he had to do was back off a bit, let Ocon through and lose minimal time to Lewis and come out unscathed. Yet he brakes later and then turns into T2 basically expecting Ocon to magically disappear even though Ocon already had the majority of his car outside the white line. IMO all of these little incidents point back to the fact that Max believes too much of his own hype and already seems to consider himself as F1's next GOAT.



Yep, this and Peter Windsor's commentary are spot on.

_________________
Image


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:57 am 
Offline
Founder of the Yaytree
Founder of the Yaytree
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 8:27 pm
Posts: 28113
Location: Birmingham, UK (Not near DEGA :( )
Has thanked: 1288 times
Been thanked: 1867 times
Thinking about it, was the DRS one detection point for 2 zones, or 2 detection points for 2 zones?

If it was 2, Max would've been much better off letting him go and getting a tow of the Mercedes and some DRS to boot
Looking at how much the Force India gained on the straight, it's unlikely he would've been straight by, but the combination of those two things could've been worth half a second over lewis

Saying that, this is Max's one key weakness atm.
As soon as he works out how to play the long game, he'll be dominating this sport, either with Honda's assistance in a Red Bull or replacing Lewis at Mercedes when he retires. (Merc scrapped HARD for him, it's the reason he came into the sport so young, Red Bull had to trump Merc's test driver offer by giving him the torro rosso drive, and I don't think Merc will ever forget that. If he's available when Lewis retires, or maybe even if he's not, expect him to be sitting in that seat)

Maybe he just really really hates Ocon after all the times they hit each other in F3 :P

_________________
RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:44 am 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 5:20 pm
Posts: 16730
Has thanked: 256 times
Been thanked: 1170 times
What's really bugging me is the number of people who seem to think Max was 'clearly' ahead going into turn 2... which I'm sorry, he just wasn't. He was maybe half a car length ahead, at the very most. Since when does that give you the right to turn in, regardless of who might be on your inside? It's another example of this ridiculous and increasingly prevalent idea that being on the racing line gives you carte blanche to drive wherever you want, and to hell with whoever you might drive into.


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:43 pm 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:25 pm
Posts: 24642
Location: Guildford, UK
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 709 times
Courtesy of the denziens of Atlas;

Image

Ocon should not have been attempting to race anyone at the time of the collision.

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:04 pm 
Offline
Silver Member
Silver Member
User avatar

Joined: Tue Apr 06, 2010 3:33 pm
Posts: 1019
Has thanked: 5 times
Been thanked: 40 times
micha wrote:
but didnt multiple teams/drivers complain about the sudden slowdown of the Williams during the season?



Another one,same race,here,Ralf slowing down much earlier,you can see comparing it to the Jordan,and causing Barrichelo to hit him.


_________________
https://www.youtube.com/user/Alonsofanscro


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:15 pm 
Offline
Junior Member
Junior Member
User avatar

Joined: Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:06 pm
Posts: 256
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 2 times
RtN wrote:
Courtesy of the denziens of Atlas;

Image

Ocon should not have been attempting to race anyone at the time of the collision.


The blue flags insinuate that Ocon was ahead, enough to trigger blue flags.

So Max was trying to overtake a faster car that he wasn't in a race with.

I'm sorry, but the speed in which Ocon came past Max into turn one, Max should have let him go.

Ocon's fault? Yes.

As clear cut as the internet is making? Far from it.


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:20 pm 
Offline
Honorary Member
Honorary Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:25 pm
Posts: 24642
Location: Guildford, UK
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 709 times
The blue flag was likely in relation to Hamilton. I don't think the software reacts that fast in acknowledging Ocon's position versus Verstappen.

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:31 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 7:00 am
Posts: 8766
Location: Paris
Has thanked: 617 times
Been thanked: 836 times
Golden rule in racing: once you're in the gravel trap or into the wall, no amount of bitching or debating can bring you back your track position. Not even the race officials. They can penalize the driver who wronged you, but not all the other ones who passed you in the process. And you pay your own repair bills (heck, medical bills if the worst happens). Ironically, Ocon is one to know that, he threw away a possible podium in Baku the second he turned in on Kimi assuming he "had" that corner.


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:52 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 6:48 pm
Posts: 10351
Has thanked: 293 times
Been thanked: 280 times
When I saw the incident live, I was questioning why Ocon was racing so hard. With the various angles now seen (especially the speed advantage you can see from Ocon's onboard), I now feel that it's 100% Max's fault.

Peter Windsor sums it up very well.


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:46 pm 
Offline
Platinum Member
Platinum Member
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2008 9:08 pm
Posts: 16108
Location: Joined 1st TBK: November 25th, 2005 ***Joelma Building, Sao Paulo***
Has thanked: 155 times
Been thanked: 940 times
RtN wrote:
Courtesy of the denziens of Atlas;

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DryKlVOXcAA9MsQ.jpg

Ocon should not have been attempting to race anyone at the time of the collision.


this frame is pretty tricky as it depicts Ocon turning left in a right turn haha

but Max should had avoided the contact

_________________
Motorsports trend for 2024: everything is a bad taste joke now


Top
PostPosted: Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:56 pm 
Offline
The Finnish Paul Page
The Finnish Paul Page
User avatar

Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2008 5:07 pm
Posts: 6308
Location: Racing is in my blood
Has thanked: 725 times
Been thanked: 563 times
Coldtyre wrote:
Golden rule in racing: once you're in the gravel trap or into the wall, no amount of bitching or debating can bring you back your track position. Not even the race officials. They can penalize the driver who wronged you, but not all the other ones who passed you in the process. And you pay your own repair bills (heck, medical bills if the worst happens). Ironically, Ocon is one to know that, he threw away a possible podium in Baku the second he turned in on Kimi assuming he "had" that corner.



Hamilton was in a gravel trap at Nürburging 2007. Got more than a position back. So...it's therefore a...platinum rule? The blessed platinum rule of racing.

_________________
"Indy doesn't give you a second chance. You have to earn it."


Top
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic  Reply to topic  [ 296 posts ]  Go to page Previous 111 12 13 14 15 Next

All times are UTC+01:00


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Timdpr and 18 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited