2011 Random F1 Discussion

MaTT · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:55 am

Good thing is, Paul is at a stage of his career where the points table doesn't really matter - that'll come when he's fighting for championships. His performances are what will get him better drives, and so far this year excepting the odd understandable rookie mistake he's been great. He'll be fine

.

ellis · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:09 pm

Paul has just come from touring cars too, so he's essentially relearning single seater racing (not driving, racing). I think he's doing brilliant, given how rated Sutil had become recently.

cookie · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:18 pm

I think they were going to penalize button, the message came up it would be investigated after the race. They obviously never thought he was going to win the race so they could deal with the incident after the race and then give him a time penalty. But when he won they were put in a difficult situation, and I believe they were correct in not punishing him then. Because it really sucks when a driver loses an amazing victory (Hamilton spa 2008 for example).

So I think Button deserved a drive through for both his on track collisions, but not a penalty after the race.

Schumifan · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:03 pm

phil1993 wrote:

nea wrote:

But, as Ellis has said, no penalties should be given for racing incidents. Period.

This.

Equally though, you do need a fine line. Because if you don't have penalties, you're going to get drivers ramming each other off, a la BTCC

No you're not. These cars can't do that, and the drivers know it.

DinoMarko93 · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:48 pm

Schumifan wrote:

phil1993 wrote:

nea wrote:

But, as Ellis has said, no penalties should be given for racing incidents. Period.

This.

Equally though, you do need a fine line. Because if you don't have penalties, you're going to get drivers ramming each other off, a la BTCC

No you're not. These cars can't do that, and the drivers know it.

Some drivers hadn't figured it out yet. Some of them thing the other will know that and move out of the way.

Shaddix · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:50 pm

DinoMarko93 wrote:

Schumifan wrote:

phil1993 wrote:

Equally though, you do need a fine line. Because if you don't have penalties, you're going to get drivers ramming each other off, a la BTCC

No you're not. These cars can't do that, and the drivers know it.

Some drivers hadn't figured it out yet. Some of them thing the other will know that and move out of the way.

don't point your finger at the black sheep of the group!

phil1993 · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:28 pm

Schumifan wrote:

No you're not. These cars can't do that, and the drivers know it.

They can. Case in point - Webber, Singapore 2010, hell, Alonso's Ferrari took a full on wallop from Barrichello in Spa last year. The cars are fairly strong

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:30 pm

It all depends on the angle of the hit.

Brooney · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:32 pm

Gaara wrote:

It all depends on the angle of the hit.

Yeah, we've seen things go very badly even though it didn't look like it would.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 3:53 pm

To answer my own and Marcel's question, the last time two races in a row were suspended were the 1998 Canadian & French Grand Prixs - Canada due to a crash and France due to a stalled car, both Lap 1.

gd49 · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:19 pm

ellis wrote:

I'm putting this here, because I don't think a brilliant race like the Canadian GP deserves to have it's thread polluted with arguments. But there are 2 points which once again need raised.

First is DRS. And I know I'm bound to get some whiny members who don't care about the sporting aspect, and just want OMG PASS and ridiculous crashes, but DRS needs sorted. It ruined a potentially great battle at Montreal but just giving passes away too easily. It's easy to look at it and say that it perhaps aided us in getting Jenson to the lead, but that is purely circumstantial. Had Vettel used the system to simple ease passed Button for the lead, can you imagine the shit storm we'd have on this forum? I'm not against DRS as a system, but I don't think it should be simply giving passes away, but rather allowing the chasing car the opportunity to pass. Having 2 zones confuses me, because it allowed a car to pass, and then even worse, accelerate away with ease, thus making it impossible for the car which is now behind to fight back. It really needs toned down. I'd argue that the Pirelli tyres have produced much better racing than DRS has.

The DRS zones in Canada made no sense at all. If the 2nd zone had allowed the overtaken driver to activate the DRS that could have been a lot more interesting, instead of just ensuring the driver doing the overtaking definately wasn't going to be overtaken.

I think DRS has been a good thing overall. In places like Monaco it made overtaking more of a possibilty, in Istanbul it didn't help at all, in Canada and Sepang it made overtaking too easy. I think it still needs fine-tuning but I'd rather have it than not have it, and at least it does something unlike the adjustable front wings.

Rubmifer · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:39 pm

gd49 wrote:

ellis wrote:

I'm putting this here, because I don't think a brilliant race like the Canadian GP deserves to have it's thread polluted with arguments. But there are 2 points which once again need raised.

First is DRS. And I know I'm bound to get some whiny members who don't care about the sporting aspect, and just want OMG PASS and ridiculous crashes, but DRS needs sorted. It ruined a potentially great battle at Montreal but just giving passes away too easily. It's easy to look at it and say that it perhaps aided us in getting Jenson to the lead, but that is purely circumstantial. Had Vettel used the system to simple ease passed Button for the lead, can you imagine the shit storm we'd have on this forum? I'm not against DRS as a system, but I don't think it should be simply giving passes away, but rather allowing the chasing car the opportunity to pass. Having 2 zones confuses me, because it allowed a car to pass, and then even worse, accelerate away with ease, thus making it impossible for the car which is now behind to fight back. It really needs toned down. I'd argue that the Pirelli tyres have produced much better racing than DRS has.

The DRS zones in Canada made no sense at all. If the 2nd zone had allowed the overtaken driver to activate the DRS that could have been a lot more interesting, instead of just ensuring the driver doing the overtaking definately wasn't going to be overtaken.

I think DRS has been a good thing overall. In places like Monaco it made overtaking more of a possibilty, in Istanbul it didn't help at all, in Canada and Sepang it made overtaking too easy. I think it still needs fine-tuning but I'd rather have it than not have it, and at least it does something unlike the adjustable front wings.

Surely you mean Barcelona? Istanbul was ridiculous with the drs.

gd49 · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:34 pm

Rubmifer wrote:

gd49 wrote:

ellis wrote:

I'm putting this here, because I don't think a brilliant race like the Canadian GP deserves to have it's thread polluted with arguments. But there are 2 points which once again need raised.

First is DRS. And I know I'm bound to get some whiny members who don't care about the sporting aspect, and just want OMG PASS and ridiculous crashes, but DRS needs sorted. It ruined a potentially great battle at Montreal but just giving passes away too easily. It's easy to look at it and say that it perhaps aided us in getting Jenson to the lead, but that is purely circumstantial. Had Vettel used the system to simple ease passed Button for the lead, can you imagine the shit storm we'd have on this forum? I'm not against DRS as a system, but I don't think it should be simply giving passes away, but rather allowing the chasing car the opportunity to pass. Having 2 zones confuses me, because it allowed a car to pass, and then even worse, accelerate away with ease, thus making it impossible for the car which is now behind to fight back. It really needs toned down. I'd argue that the Pirelli tyres have produced much better racing than DRS has.

The DRS zones in Canada made no sense at all. If the 2nd zone had allowed the overtaken driver to activate the DRS that could have been a lot more interesting, instead of just ensuring the driver doing the overtaking definately wasn't going to be overtaken.

I think DRS has been a good thing overall. In places like Monaco it made overtaking more of a possibilty, in Istanbul it didn't help at all, in Canada and Sepang it made overtaking too easy. I think it still needs fine-tuning but I'd rather have it than not have it, and at least it does something unlike the adjustable front wings.

Surely you mean Barcelona? Istanbul was ridiculous with the drs.

Maybe

I'm sure I remembered DRS not seeming to help the overtakes much in Istanbul but maybe it was Barcelona...

asshat · PostPosted: Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:50 pm

Istanbul most overtakes would have been completed without the use of DRS. Half the time it was two cars side by side at the activation line.

The only thing that annoyed me about DRS in Montreal was Massa passing Kobayashi at the finish!

ptclaus98 · PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 3:53 am

ellis wrote:

I'm putting this here, because I don't think a brilliant race like the Canadian GP deserves to have it's thread polluted with arguments. But there are 2 points which once again need raised.

First is DRS. And I know I'm bound to get some whiny members who don't care about the sporting aspect, and just want OMG PASS and ridiculous crashes, but DRS needs sorted. It ruined a potentially great battle at Montreal but just giving passes away too easily. It's easy to look at it and say that it perhaps aided us in getting Jenson to the lead, but that is purely circumstantial. Had Vettel used the system to simple ease passed Button for the lead, can you imagine the shit storm we'd have on this forum? I'm not against DRS as a system, but I don't think it should be simply giving passes away, but rather allowing the chasing car the opportunity to pass. Having 2 zones confuses me, because it allowed a car to pass, and then even worse, accelerate away with ease, thus making it impossible for the car which is now behind to fight back. It really needs toned down. I'd argue that the Pirelli tyres have produced much better racing than DRS has.

Secondly, these penalties from the stewards need consistency. Jenson was involved in 2 accidents (arguably both his fault, but that is another discussion), which resulted in 2 retirements with no penalty. Meanwhile di Resta takes off his own front wing and only harms himself, and is given a stop and go. I'm not suggesting Jenson should be penalised - I don't think you should penalise for racing accidents, it is bad for the racing) - but if he isn't then why are others for less significant crimes? Had Paul taken out Heidfeld then possibly a penalty, but for damaging your own car, and nothing else? Seems stupid to me. Also, when Heidfeld hit Kob, had his car not nomnomed it's own front wing, would he have penalised too? I thought a driver steward would have helped the consistency, but it's just as bad as before in a single weekend, nevermind others.

Just the opposite, I think it lessens the problem of gross blocking because closing speeds are so high that if you try anything funny, you're risking your race as well. For instance, when Button went around the outside of Schumacher in the last chicane, there was little Schumacher could do because Button was alongside before he could even think about doing anything, whereas last year, at the same part of track, Massa tried to make the same pass with a similar run on Schumacher, and he nearly had him off into the wall. And it doesn't completely ruin the battling aspect as we saw when Webber tried to get past Schumacher as well. And it's made the end of races really exciting. Before this year, you'd have never seen Vettel pushing so hard on the final lap, because with the wet parts of the track it would have been significantly easier to keep Button behind. But now with KERS he has to be on the limit till the end, and it forces a mistake from him as well(this is part tyres, too, but without DRS, he could focus on keeping Button behind instead of pushing to stay a second ahead.)

And I wouldn't have given a single shit if Button had passed using DRS. Well done to him for getting into the position to have that advantage.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 10:30 am

Kubica could race in Brazil
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/92342

Then again, he might not.

Shaddix · PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 11:18 am

he won't know the car
so it could only harm his reputation, I think it would be better for him to have a well prepared return in 2012

StefMeister · PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:18 pm

While I've generally been a fan of the testing ban as I feel it makes Friday practice more intresting with teams having to go out & test updates rather than just sit in the garage having done a few thousand kilometers in testing with the updates the week before, Its situations like this where I start to see it as been a bit silly.

Kubica may well be fully ready to return at Brazil, However putting him in the car that weekend & him struggling because he wasn't as ready as he thought would do nothing but harm him. If there was some form of testing allowed he could do a day or 2 at Silverstone or wherever & then fully understand exactly how ready he really is.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:24 pm

I don't see why you can't just do testing on Monday after the race at say, Istanbul, Barcelona, Silverstone, Hockenheim/Nurburgring, Spa and Monza. Thats enough testing, you have 2 cars there. Everyone just needs to stay one day longer. You don't benefit for that race weekend either as it has just happened.

Also, wonder what this could be

Quote:

GaryPaffett Gary Paffett
Lots of BIG news coming in the next few days so keep an eye out. Lots of work done by MR. B @markblundellF1 Phew..........

Shaddix · PostPosted: Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:41 pm

Reserve seat somewhere? Or maybe just DTM-related news

TBK-Light.com

2011 Random F1 Discussion

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