2021 Formula One Random Discussion Thread

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:55 pm

webbsy wrote:

So Pirelli have released their statement on the tyre blow outs...and it confuses me.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... QIvY5.html

Quote:

The causes of the two left-rear tyre failures on the Aston Martin and Red Bull cars have been clearly identified. In each case, this was down to a circumferential break on the inner sidewall, which can be related to the running conditions of the tyre, in spite of the prescribed starting parameters (minimum pressure and maximum blanket temperature) having been followed.

So they saying that the tyres blew because of the way the teams ran them?. Even though they were prepared in accordance to Pirelli's guidelines? That they somehow out on track have managed them in such a way that they overstressed the tyre to failure? (Would NOT surprise me in the slightest, to then heap blame on Pirelli).

Or are they trying in a round about way to say these were just two identical freak blow outs?

AIUI, they are subtly hinting that the teams are still finding ways to abuse the tyres while still keeping within the wording of the rules. Motorsport.com have an article on it which goes into more detail, but I think the biggest clue here is that the FIA announced new rules for tyre handling this week, including temperature checks when cold and limits on how long they can be cooked in the tyre warmers.

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:55 pm

Karan wrote:

EAS wrote:

Grosjean test with Mercedes has been postponed

Was he going to do the test and the demo run before the GP, on the same weekend as Road America? Not sure how that would've worked.

The GP has been brought forward; they were originally on different weekends.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:38 am

gkmotorsport wrote:

webbsy wrote:

So Pirelli have released their statement on the tyre blow outs...and it confuses me.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/arti ... QIvY5.html

Quote:

The causes of the two left-rear tyre failures on the Aston Martin and Red Bull cars have been clearly identified. In each case, this was down to a circumferential break on the inner sidewall, which can be related to the running conditions of the tyre, in spite of the prescribed starting parameters (minimum pressure and maximum blanket temperature) having been followed.

So they saying that the tyres blew because of the way the teams ran them?. Even though they were prepared in accordance to Pirelli's guidelines? That they somehow out on track have managed them in such a way that they overstressed the tyre to failure? (Would NOT surprise me in the slightest, to then heap blame on Pirelli).

Or are they trying in a round about way to say these were just two identical freak blow outs?

AIUI, they are subtly hinting that the teams are still finding ways to abuse the tyres while still keeping within the wording of the rules. Motorsport.com have an article on it which goes into more detail, but I think the biggest clue here is that the FIA announced new rules for tyre handling this week, including temperature checks when cold and limits on how long they can be cooked in the tyre warmers.

Solution: Ban tyre warmers

For Safety

Philthy82 · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:16 am

Tyre warmers are banned from 2023 right? I know they wanted to keep them around for the first year of 18 inch wheels but that they'd be off after that. Until then I'd say change nothing. People are acting like random failures that produce surprise results are a bad thing?

webbsy · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:38 am

I love me a good tyre war to throw a spanner in the works, so I am all for punishing the tyres.

Juihi · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:33 am

I hate tyre wars, you find teams through no fault of their own being at a disadvantage

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:20 am

Last time there was a tyre war, 6 cars took to the grid at Indianapolis

micha · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 10:48 am

mclaren2008 wrote:

Last time there was a tyre war, 6 cars took to the grid at Indianapolis

If Bridgestone didnt have previous information tru Firestone we either had a full grid with a solution or a completely empty grid.'

The diamond cut of the track had a big influence on things. If both suffered we'd have a solution that weekend

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:10 am

Juihi wrote:

I hate tyre wars, you find teams through no fault of their own being at a disadvantage

This. Last time we had a tyre war, the Bridgestone teams ended up basically running Ferrari tyres. I wouldn't be surprised if the Michelin teams also had tyres optimised for Renault towards the end, too.

It would be ridiculous to think that Mercedes and Red Bull wouldn't end up forcing a similar situation.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 12:12 pm

Philthy82 wrote:

Tyre warmers are banned from 2023 right? I know they wanted to keep them around for the first year of 18 inch wheels but that they'd be off after that.

I don't know why they keep on that. Tires will not fail, there'll be no safety concern

Unless if the driver simply cannot drive cars with cold tires, that is something to see if they are really up for the superlicense

codename_47 · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:18 pm

I love tyre wars

Different tyre manufacturers having different characteristics on warmup, wear, endurance etc really brings good racing
Look at 2002, a dull season but literally the only excitement that year was Michelin having great tyres for a 1 lap run in qualifying and Montoya being able to stick it on pole. The Ferraris having to make their way past him in the early laps of those races was about the only thing worth watching.

Plus races like Brazil 2003 were crazy mainly down to the different tyres.
The track favoured bridgestones and michelins at different times over the 2 hours and it made for epic racing

Also, the epic slow mos we get these days of a puncture shredding the left or right rear of a car is one of the most spectacular shots you can get these days. Even better if the driver manages to control it and you get all the HD slow mo goodness without it ending in a crash

Also interesting Max and Lewis have come out with "You can't blame the teams, it was Pirelli's fault" and "It wasn't Pirelli's fault, it was the team's fault" statement today respectively.
But then it's standard Red Bull to throw their partners under the bus for their mistakes I guess

Hopefully teams will be doing at least 2 stop races in France and Austria as a precaution, IF they've learnt their lesson... :whistling:

Gaara · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:38 pm

Teams, learning lessons?

Hey, look... flying pigs!

JJ · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 3:44 pm

If tyre wars were to return, there ought to be at least 8 tyre manufacturers to choose from: Pirelli, Bridgestone, Michelin, Dunlop, Goodyear, Continental, Firestone, Nokian Tyres. It's easy for teams to blame tyres if there's a clear cut between two manufacturers. But if each team has different tyres, it's not clear how to do the comparison. Pace is good? Maybe it's the car, maybe it's the tyres. Teams would constantly shilly-shally: "Should we change to Goodyear next season, or maybe stick with Firestone?"
There would be unforeseen variety and unpredictability every new season. :8:

sennadesillva · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:45 pm

Just as long as it doesn't become like the nascar tire wars and we have regular failures leading to massive crashes, injuries and and a couple deaths :/

Gabriel · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:46 pm

All teams should use 4 different tyre manufacturers. One for each wheel.

And it should be randomly set for every GP.

"Red Bull will race with Bridgestone in the RR, Dunlop in the LR, Michelin in the RF and Pirelli in the LF. They could be in a disadvantage this weekend as this circuit punishes the RF and the Michelin has proven to be the weakest in that corner of the car. Mercedes could have a better weekend with the Goodyear in said corner, although they will have Continental in the LR, which has shown real traction issues out of slow corners".

Bleu · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 6:51 pm

cookie wrote:

They just ran them too long, for some reason all teams just want to do one stop races and then drive slow enough to manage the tires. Surprise, this huge straight on the Baku track is too long to nurse the tires. Same as we saw in Silverstone last year, tire failures at the end of a long stint on hards. Silverstone also has long straights like Baku. Is it so hard just to do 2 stops? They can drive faster then, so I think the difference between 1 or 2 stopping would be almost nothing.

If Stroll's accident had happened where Verstappen one happened then it would have easy job to change tyres as cars were directed through the pit lane during the latter safety car, while the place where it happened caused the pit lane to be closed.

trout · PostPosted: Thu Jun 17, 2021 9:54 pm

i like the idea of teams risking blowouts for pushing the limits. want to try and 1-stop the race? go ahead, but know that you could ruin your finish with a blowout

and if the drivers are concerned about their safety, they can come in and pit. no need for more rules to blueballs the racing

gkmotorsport · PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 1:20 pm

trout wrote:

i like the idea of teams risking blowouts for pushing the limits. want to try and 1-stop the race? go ahead, but know that you could ruin your finish with a blowout

and if the drivers are concerned about their safety, they can come in and pit. no need for more rules to blueballs the racing

The problem here is that both cars suffered unexpected blowouts with no warning signs. Other drivers went longer than they did on the same tyres, so where do you make the call?

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Fri Jun 18, 2021 5:10 pm

sennadesillva wrote:

Just as long as it doesn't become like the nascar tire wars and we have regular failures leading to massive crashes, injuries and and a couple deaths :/

Goodyear vs Hoosier, Daytona 1994, the worst edition in history with two deaths.

Very good reminder that safety issues are not related solely to whether you're on single or multiple suppliers, as if it's a magical single parameter that will solve everything ever.

trout · PostPosted: Sun Jun 20, 2021 4:47 am

gkmotorsport wrote:

trout wrote:

i like the idea of teams risking blowouts for pushing the limits. want to try and 1-stop the race? go ahead, but know that you could ruin your finish with a blowout

and if the drivers are concerned about their safety, they can come in and pit. no need for more rules to blueballs the racing

The problem here is that both cars suffered unexpected blowouts with no warning signs. Other drivers went longer than they did on the same tyres, so where do you make the call?

i'm fairly certain the teams were aware they were stretching the limits of the tire. "no warning" in this case just means the tyres didn't deflate gradually. it would be extremely surprising if teams full of (some of) the highest paid engineers in the world weren't aware that that many laps, at that much load, and pushing the parameters given by pirelli weren't operating on the edge of the tyres capabilities. maybe some of the teams thought that pirelli's guidelines included some safety buffer beyond their parameters, and found out the hard way that the drop off is a precipice and not a gradual slope

edit:

TBK-Light.com

2021 Formula One Random Discussion Thread

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