2014 Grand Prix du Canada

kals · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:30 am

Had Felipe held his line and not had the irregular steering inputs he did it is highly likely the accident would not have happened.

It works both ways.

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:32 am

Am surprised it isn't the same number of places as Chilton but I suppose anything more than three for Chilton is utterly pointless >.<

RtN · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:34 am

Perez' trajectory would still have taken him in front of Felipe and when he braked 40m early for the corner Felipe would have had very little time to react.

Karan · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:37 am

Gaara wrote:

Am surprised it isn't the same number of places as Chilton but I suppose anything more than three for Chilton is utterly pointless >.<

Couldn't they have added X number of seconds to Chilton's next race finish?

kals · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:39 am

Karan wrote:

Gaara wrote:

Am surprised it isn't the same number of places as Chilton but I suppose anything more than three for Chilton is utterly pointless >.<

Couldn't they have added X number of seconds to Chilton's next race finish?

Chilton does that to himself at every race.

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:40 am

Yeaa wouldn't change anything.

Just ban him from a race XD

RtN · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:41 am

Karan wrote:

Gaara wrote:

Am surprised it isn't the same number of places as Chilton but I suppose anything more than three for Chilton is utterly pointless >.<

Couldn't they have added X number of seconds to Chilton's next race finish?

Doesn't really work when you finish near or at the back anyway.

Kind of like the grid penalty.

Would be surprised if he didn't get some penalty points as well. Pretty stupid driving for lap 1 and the interview was downright hilarious. 'Yeah, Bianchi braked later than me and forced me to brake later too!'

kals · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:41 am

RtN wrote:

Perez' trajectory would still have taken him in front of Felipe and when he braked 40m early for the corner Felipe would have had very little time to react.

Maybe, maybe not. Like I've said a few times already... Perez took a standard line toward the corner considering it was the last lap and he was trying to hold on to a podium... and he had some braking issues.

It was the same line we've seen used many times previously and without the same result. That's why I'm so vehemently against Massa in this and why we'll not agree with each other.

Gaara · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:45 am

Have we heard the drivers side of the story?

Gael · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:53 am

Quote:

Speaking via a Force India press release, Perez commented: "On the final lap I was defending my position going into turn one when I suddenly got hit from behind. It was a big impact, but I am okay. I'm really sad for the team because we had an amazing race today and the one-stop strategy was working perfectly.

"It was not easy in the final laps and I was pushing hard to try and get ahead of Nico [Rosberg] for the lead. Daniel [Ricciardo] managed to get ahead of me when I had an electrical issue with my car, but I managed to reset the system for the final couple of laps. The podium was possible today and I'm just very disappointed for the points we have lost."

RtN · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:42 am

Gael wrote:

Quote:

Speaking via a Force India press release, Perez commented: "On the final lap I was defending my position going into turn one when I suddenly got hit from behind. It was a big impact, but I am okay. I'm really sad for the team because we had an amazing race today and the one-stop strategy was working perfectly.

"It was not easy in the final laps and I was pushing hard to try and get ahead of Nico [Rosberg] for the lead. Daniel [Ricciardo] managed to get ahead of me when I had an electrical issue with my car, but I managed to reset the system for the final couple of laps. The podium was possible today and I'm just very disappointed for the points we have lost."

And Felipe's take.

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/114362

Quote:

"I talked to him at the medical centre. I was so disappointed with him," Massa said.

"I said that he needs to learn. I wanted him to put himself in my place, because I had a huge crash and honestly I thought it was going to hurt.

"It's not the first time that he turned into somebody under braking. He did this many times. He didn't say anything, he just turned and left. I hope he learns.

"We are doing around 300km/h there. With another car in front it could have been a very serious accident.

"We've had the rules for a few years that when one car is up the side the other cannot move anymore. He just move and we touched.

"It's dangerous. For me five places is not enough. He was dangerous. We could have crashed into [Sebastian] Vettel."

Nothing really surprising from either driver.

ptclaus98 · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:54 am

I just don't see how that's Massa's fault at all. He goes for the overtake and Perez waits too late to defend with bad brakes.

ptclaus98 · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 1:56 am

kals wrote:

RtN wrote:

Perez' trajectory would still have taken him in front of Felipe and when he braked 40m early for the corner Felipe would have had very little time to react.

Maybe, maybe not. Like I've said a few times already... Perez took a standard line toward the corner considering it was the last lap and he was trying to hold on to a podium... and he had some braking issues.

It was the same line we've seen used many times previously and without the same result. That's why I'm so vehemently against Massa in this and why we'll not agree with each other.

Probably best to not leave your defending till the braking zone, then?

StefMeister · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:10 am

Vettel's OnBoard during the Massa/Perez crash:
https://vine.co/v/MD07j6lMTeW

westracing01 · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:22 am

I like Felipe and I stick by my driver. I too was disappointed in his inability to make passes late in the going. I actually think he forgot to open the DRS once. I would love to sit here and say it was all Perez's fault, but I don't think that's fair. Yes, Sergio moves over, but Felipe moved back to the right a touch following the curve of the road. I would think Felipe did that because he was expecting Sergio to hold his line and by being tucked right up next to him he would force him wide into T1 making him concede the corner. When Sergio moved left this went against what Felipe was expecting and there was no time to do anything about. Take out either of those, the slight move right to force Sergio over, or Sergio's move to defend, and the wreck doesn't happen.

I'm just glad they're both OK. Nasty wreck and a disappointing ending to an otherwise WAY above average race.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:00 am

Omega wrote:

nope, it was when he was right behind Rosberg too
see

IIRC, there was an early radio in the race where Perez's engineer told him his DRS was not working.

Massa, on the other hand, lost the chance to win the race when Vettel divebombed on Ric, got wide in the hairpin and was slow exiting it. But Massa forgot to use DRS, otherwise he would have passed Vet that moment and maybe, who knows, could have won this race. Obviously the bad first pit stop(Massa's, I mean) prevented that win, as well.

How did Ric passed Ros btw? Nico was a sitting duck on the straight but given Perez had the highest top speed of all cars and couldn't even nearly do that, I'm guessing Ros had a temporary loss of power again. I mean, a temporary one even bigger than the one he was carrying since last pit stop(couple of laps earlier, actually)

Yes, I'm not a fan of the track, but what really made this race interesting was the Mercedes's troubles. Track layout had nothing to do with it. This could have happened anywhere and until the last half, the race was like 6/10, at best, and that due to the tension among Mercedes inner battle.

Artur Craft · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:21 am

Soul Reaver wrote:

Ricciardo wins, showing hes better than Vettel, a 4time champion, thus Ricciardo is better than Ayrton Senna. And Massa nad better pace than Ricciardo, showing hes better than all. [\arthur craft]

you must be mistaking me for somebody else. Btw, that kind of reasoning seems like your's, tbh

asshat · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 6:18 am

Artur Craft wrote:

How did Ric passed Ros btw? Nico was a sitting duck on the straight but given Perez had the highest top speed of all cars and couldn't even nearly do that, I'm guessing Ros had a temporary loss of power again. I mean, a temporary one even bigger than the one he was carrying since last pit stop(couple of laps earlier, actually)

Perez was on some seriously old tyres and just didn't have the corner speed to keep up with the Merc through the first and second sectors. Ric didn't lose anywhere near as much time to Ros in the first and second sectors so he was much closer when exiting the hairpin.

Basically
Perez: Fast on straights, average in corners
Ric: Average on straights, fast in corners
Ros: Stupidly slow on straights, stupidly fast in corners

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:09 am

kals wrote:

When I saw the onboard replay from Perez, he appeared to take a straighter line towards T1. That has been pretty normal at this race and circuit over many years. Perez did not make a sudden jerking movement towards Massa or another part of the circuit, which is consistent with changing lanes while in the braking zone.

Perez is having braking issues but is holding / defending 3rd place on the last lap. It appeared to me more that Massa tried a mistimed do or die move and wiped them both out in the process.

@

RtN - Felipe didn't just turn right but took a big tug toward the right. There was no progressive movement in the steering wheel that is consistent with that curve.

Are we all watching the same helicam video?
Perez started turning right at the same time as Massa, to follow the track curvature. The reason why Massa's input to the right seems sharper, is that his car was slightly facing left (he was changing lanes, remember) so he had to bring it back to be parallel to the track again after the kink.
At this stage, both drivers inputs are putting them each on his lane, following the track line, not on a collision course. The FI has a predictable line that Massa based his line onto.

Then, while both cars are in the process of turning right to stay parallel to the track line, Perez jerks it back to the left and that's what caused the contact.

You keep putting the blame on Massa without saying whet he should have done instead. Because just reacting to that was not humanly possible.

Slam · PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 9:23 am

I see where Kals is coming from. Massa didn't need to be so close to Perez. He was asking for trouble. It only needed a tiny deviation from Perez and there would be a big accident, which is exactly what happened. But in the end I still think the penalty was justified. Even though it was only a small movement, I don't think Perez should have moved like that in the braking zone.

At the same time I didn't really like Vettel's squeezing on Perez at the corner before.

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2014 Grand Prix du Canada

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