mclaren2008 wrote:
Vettel has led the last 145 straight racing laps, that must be approaching the record for most consecutive racing laps led. The record must be Ayrton Senna from 1988.
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| Author: | kals [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:46 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
Kimi was excellently consistent in 2003 and that's what kept him in the title hunt. However the championship was really between Schumi and Montoya and it was the tyre controversy after Hungary followed by that (very suspect) penalty at Indy that cost Montoya. |
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| Author: | codename_47 [ Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:00 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
Yeah, I agree that our standards have changed in what we deem a great race in this era. If you think back to how apeshit people went over Silverstone 03 and Suzuka 05 back then and then look back on them with more recent standards and you realise the majority of the races since 2010 have that level of overtaking and we're just used to it now, whereas back then the races were so processional races like that seemed like one off. Refueling era became sadly predictable after a couple of seasons of the teams having the optimum data for each track. There wasn't the huge difference between 2 stopping and 3 stopping, etc that they hoped for so you didn't get the lighter cars on a 3 stopper overtaking heavier cars on a 2 as was hoped when it was brought in. Plus as it wore on all the aerodynamic flicks and winglets became ridiculous so dirty air was a major problem. Today's race had more overtaking but still seemed flat for whatever reason. Maybe it was the track but its more likely that in all the other races there has been a decent amount of overtaking and the winner was in doubt until the very closing stages. Today we had Vettel sure of victory after the first lap. Yes overtaking but it was down the bottom half of the top ten. Maybe the TV direction has something to do with it too, at least now a director will search for the action, 10 years ago you had biased local directors only filming their local heroes. I distinctly remember in Barcelona 03 Ralf Schumacher flying off the road but the cameraman panning away from it because Alonso was coming past. And it used to be more ridiculous in Japan with any Japanese driver. Now you get less national bias and more action! |
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| Author: | mclaren2008 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:44 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
Vettel has led the last 145 straight racing laps, that must be approaching the record for most consecutive racing laps led. The record must be Ayrton Senna from 1988. |
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| Author: | Artur Craft [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:42 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
phil1993 wrote: Eddie Jordan doing Gangnam Style you say? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mzFqNYl3UNQ[/youtubeidiot] as someone who doesn't watch BBC coverage, who are those 2 girls they invite to join the dance? I thought they were RBR workers when I saw them on worldfeed |
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| Author: | kals [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
mclaren2008 wrote: Vettel has led the last 145 straight racing laps, that must be approaching the record for most consecutive racing laps led. The record must be Ayrton Senna from 1988. So what about Schumacher in either 2002 or 2004 then? Or do you not remember him utterly dominating those years... |
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| Author: | ellis [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:54 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
I did a google for that and its a surprisingly difficult statistic to find. If anyone has it then it'd be interesting. |
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| Author: | mclaren2008 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:06 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
kals wrote: mclaren2008 wrote: Vettel has led the last 145 straight racing laps, that must be approaching the record for most consecutive racing laps led. The record must be Ayrton Senna from 1988. So what about Schumacher in either 2002 or 2004 then? Or do you not remember him utterly dominating those years... Yes I know that but Schumacher did not lead a lot of consecutive laps. He won a lot of races but did not lead every lap in them. Vettel has led every lap from mid distance in Singapore. |
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| Author: | sebbl [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
mclaren2008 wrote: Vettel has led the last 145 straight racing laps, that must be approaching the record for most consecutive racing laps led. The record must be Ayrton Senna from 1988.
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| Author: | Ospi [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:29 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
kals wrote: mclaren2008 wrote: Vettel has led the last 145 straight racing laps, that must be approaching the record for most consecutive racing laps led. The record must be Ayrton Senna from 1988. So what about Schumacher in either 2002 or 2004 then? Or do you not remember him utterly dominating those years... |
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| Author: | ellis [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
Turns out McLaren2008 was right about one thing - Schumacher didn't lead that amount of laps in the domination era. But also, Vettel isn't even close to the record. He'd need to lead all of India, all of Abu Dhabi, and almost all of Texas to get to the record. It's harder to do now days because the field spread is less than previous eras. Vettel wouldn't have lead all of Korea had he had pole, as the RBR driver who qualifies ahead gets the pit stop preferences (unless they change strategy to get a car out of position), so he wouldn've pitted first had he had pole, losing the lead for a lap or so. I don't see him beating that record. And whilst it'd be cool (for a Vettel fan) for him to break that record, it wouldn't be good for racing anyway. |
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| Author: | Beezle [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 8:16 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
Led distance would be the better fact tbh. Still interesting tho. |
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| Author: | Mika Kimi [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 9:41 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
Yeah because of that I'm really surprised that Ascari holds this record. http://statsf1.com/en/statistiques/pilo ... cutif.aspx |
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| Author: | Cheeveer [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 10:20 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
Scotty wrote: Even Webber has him covered! Fuck yeah! And consider 1952 era tracks which were minimum 6-10 mile long tracks, compared to this pissy short tracks they run on today. Other than Spa and Nurburgring, not really. Rouen-les-Essarts: 5,1km Silverstone: 4,71km Zandvoort: 4,195km However, races were longer, 85 laps at Silverstone and 90 laps at Zandvoort. What is even more impressive is the length of his winning streak in World Driver's Championship Grand Prix races (not including the Indianapolis 500), from June 1952 until July 1953 he won every single one. |
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| Author: | kals [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 1:57 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
mclaren2008 wrote: kals wrote: mclaren2008 wrote: Vettel has led the last 145 straight racing laps, that must be approaching the record for most consecutive racing laps led. The record must be Ayrton Senna from 1988. So what about Schumacher in either 2002 or 2004 then? Or do you not remember him utterly dominating those years... Yes I know that but Schumacher did not lead a lot of consecutive laps. He won a lot of races but did not lead every lap in them. Vettel has led every lap from mid distance in Singapore. Fair point on Schumi. The saving grace for Senna in 1988 is that Prost wasn't credited for leading a lap after he failed to complete the overtake during the figure of eight move between the two during Hungarian GP. |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
What I never knew about the 1988 season untill today after following F1 closely for 20 years!!! was that Prost actually scored 105 points in the season finishing on the podium in 14 out of 16 races nothing below second place, to Senna's 94 points and 11 podiums. But due to the drop score rules Senna won by 3 points, Prost having to discard 3 second places. Now they were the rules at the time by which all drivers have to abide and I know that, but this I tell you has seriously made me rethink my position on Senna's 3 titles. I now view him as a 2 time world champion, and in my view, a slightly lesser driver. Believe me as a 10 year old kid Senna was my absolute hero. I guess I took it as gospel as a Senna fanboy that he beat Prost to the 1988 title (techinically yes, but outright no). 20 years of idol worshiping slightly tainted. I must have subconsciencely blocked it out. That's what fanboyism can do to you. |
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| Author: | phil1993 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 4:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
The only reason people idolise Senna to the extent that they do is that he died. Granted, he's one of the best that ever lived, but I've never seen him as the greatest of all time. I think it's dodgy to give any racing driver that title. He did some pretty stupid things on a race track, the likes of which would be frowned upon hugely today. Nearly every 'top F1 drivers ever' list now will have Senna at the top. I remember seeing or someone showing me some 'greatest ever' lists from the mid/late 90s and Senna was around #4/#5. It's as if his legacy has developed in his death and the fact that so many modern drivers view him as their hero means that his status is elevated a little bit. I know a lot of people will take this post the wrong way, especially if they see Senna as God, but I think he's one of the best, not the outright best, if that makes sense. |
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| Author: | webbsy [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
Agree with everything you have said. The reason why Prost is never considered the greatest is that he never built an aura around him like Senna did. Senna built an intensity about him that seems like no one has ever done and possibly would not do in the future. He sucked you in where every word he said had you captivated. Prost/Schumacher not so much.... |
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| Author: | phil1993 [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:39 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
Also, - not related to the above - for a man so synonymous with misfortune early in his career, Webber has gone 57 races without a race ending mechanical failure. He's one off of Schumacher's record. Alonso is also on a streak similar to Webber - he's on 51. |
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| Author: | nightflight [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 5:40 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
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| Author: | kals [ Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Yeongnam Style (2012 Korean Grand Prix) |
phil1993 wrote: The only reason people idolise Senna to the extent that they do is that he died. Granted, he's one of the best that ever lived, but I've never seen him as the greatest of all time. I think it's dodgy to give any racing driver that title. He did some pretty stupid things on a race track, the likes of which would be frowned upon hugely today. Nearly every 'top F1 drivers ever' list now will have Senna at the top. I remember seeing or someone showing me some 'greatest ever' lists from the mid/late 90s and Senna was around #4/#5. It's as if his legacy has developed in his death and the fact that so many modern drivers view him as their hero means that his status is elevated a little bit. I know a lot of people will take this post the wrong way, especially if they see Senna as God, but I think he's one of the best, not the outright best, if that makes sense. The opening sentence is quite offensive to those who do idolise him as well as to Ayrton's memory. Senna's death did not create a legend, he was that already. If you do not understand why people idolise him, I suggest you do a little more research. @  |
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