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A lot of people seem to be getting confused with the performance 'issues' stemming from Barcelona (which are completely non-existent and baseless, judging by the fact that no race before or since Barcelona has seen anything like that level of wear) and the construction issues which have been known about since Bahrain, and would already be solved by now if Pirelli had been allowed to.

I wish Max was still around.

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

The steel belt is new. They want to move away from the steel belt. Pirelli wanted to move, and a handful of teams said no. The FIA then said that the teams didn't have a say, and the FIA Decided it, but said no anyway. Then we move to Silverstone, where the loads are significantly higher than most tracks, we have failures, and everyone is asking why it wasn't fixed.

Well news flash - Pirelli wanted to fix it, everybody except a handful of teams said no. And those teams who did want it changed were crucified in the press and on forums, talking about how they were just in it for themselves etc. Vettel got a lot of flak on this specific forum despite only talking about safety, never performance. Now it turns out they were all right, and everyone is sitting asking why it wasn't fixed.

Shame Bernie doesn't have the control he did in the 90s. I know he's not FIA and strictly speaking doesn't have a say, but back then when Bernie said something, whether it was his area or not, shit got done.

so last year the tyres were made with kevlar belts and changed it this season to steel belts?

Am I the only one that just really doesn't give a flying fuck anymore?

F1 seems to be one giant political whine-fest these days.

Liar!

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/108477

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

It was around in the Jackie Stewart days, the drivers actually took a stance on track safety.

Lol, naive to think some teams simply wanted to change for safety issues and not because of performance.

I wouldn't believe the three teams who didn't want to change it would just tell their drivers to man up and get lucky if their tyre would blow.

So its actually the construction of the tyres and nothing to do with the compound then?

I'm entirely with ellis on this debate. I had questioned certain drivers complaining about tyre safety on the back of a handful of failures, in fact ellis and I had quite good discussions on this subject. However, in light of what has happened over the past weeks, pre-Canada, post-Canada (referring specifically to Vettel's comments that I brought everyone's attention to), pre-Barcelona test and post-Barcelona test, then yesterday, I'm in full agreement with ellis on this.

Perhaps yesterday needed to happen to make everyone sit up and take notice (me included) to the potential risks which a number of people have been talking about for some time. Without yesterday, perhaps nothing will have changed (mindsets or tyre construction) for many months to come, if ever.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Is it possible that the combination of warmer temps, low tire pressures and high loading caused this issue? Combined with the curb jumping possibly?

I'm not seeing a lot of difference to yesterday's race then any of the times tire problems have reared their head in NASCAR or Indycar when the teams are running low pressures with a setup that puts greater loading on the tires. I'm not saying that perhaps there wasn't a structural element to the issues yesterday, but I do find it interesting that the response in race from Pirreli was to increase the tire pressures.

Yes. Sometimes Mercedes and Red Bull asked for compound changes because they felt 5 stops was too much, but that isn't the same issue. These are not destroying themselves due to wear, but construction.

Meanwhile some drivers (Vettel especially) made the point after Bahrain that safety is a concern, and he was ridiculed for simply wanting tyres safer and everyone said he just wanted them built to the way he wanted them, which wasn't what he said. Now suddenly everyone is agreeing with Vettel, but nobody wants to admit that because it just ain't cool and down with the kids to like the evil German guy.

Safety has been a concern in both Barcelona and Bahrain, the 2 higher speed ones we've had. They got away with it at Monaco and Montreal because they are low stress on the tyres. Montreal has a high wear rate because the surface is an odd one, but the forces on the tyres are nothing compared to Silverstone.

On the topic of tyres, and the Mercedes test. Mercedes average points per race before Barcelona: 14. Average after: 33. Yeah they didn't learn anything at all did they.

Very possible, and add debris into that too. The grooved tyres that Bridgestone made had to be harder in construction anyway, because the grooves are obviously an issue to deal with. It wasn't just a slick with a groove cut in, they were pretty damn hard. Bridgestone eventually made slicks too of course, but the majority of them were grooved. So Bridgestones by default tended to cope with debris and kerbs better than softer Pirellis.

So basically the teams run lower pressures than recommended (as you pointed out, this happens a lot in the US with Goodyear), the temperatures were higher than expected, there was possibly a kerb which got overly sharp, and there was quite a bit of debris about at the start, and before Perez's blow up. We had 3 blow ups in 15 laps, and then after they cleaned the track and asked the teams to raise the preassures, they had 1, but only after there was a couple of accidents (di Resta and Gutierrez put debris on the surface). So perhaps it is just a case that the new construction is hyper sensitive to debris and kerbs.

Can of worms = opened
http://www.f1zone.net/news/pirelli-allo ... cle/19608/

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Bernie Ecclestone and FIA President Jean Todt met following the race to come up with a solution.

“They [Pirelli] have complained in the past when these tyres have delaminated – which is certainly nothing to do with it,” Ecclestone told Press Association.

“They’ve said they’d like to sort it out, but they don’t have a chance to do any testing because of these bloody silly restrictions we have.”

“But I spoke to Jean Todt over the weekend and he has said ‘Let them test’.”

That's right, they had to get Bernie in to finally get shit done.

“These kerbs have been in since 2009 and we have had thousands and thousands of cars go over these kerbs and they have been absolutely fine,” he said. “We have had them checked by the FIA and they conform fully with the FIA.”

Doesn't mean one wasn't damaged or had become sharp because of a way it had worn recently. Saying GP3, GP2 and Porsche tyres worked is just stupid because those aren't the same kind of tyres.

For anyone interested, here's some photos from the weekend
http://www.flickr.com/photos/94905885@N ... 422261617/

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I understand now better your opinion on this. Also I learnt that last year it were kevlar belts.

But. It's a bit silly to think that Red Bull and Mercedes were wanting it because of safety. Prior to Canadian Grand Prix they were the teams that were suffering very, very much about tyre degredation. And were also moaning the most about the tyres and how unsafe they are. Ferrari and Lotus seemed to have their race act more together. I am 100% sure, if it would have been let's say Mercedes and Ferrari wanting to have the tyres changed, then Red Bull would not have agreed if their cars suited the tyres better.

In my opinion, they used this 'safety' reason in the first place for their own good. It's like when it rains heavily the driver on P1 is saying it is too dangerous to continue, and the driver in P2 thinks its fine to race...

Furthermore, I don't think it would be safe to produce a new tyre design in the middle of the season without proper testing them. God knows what unexpected things might happen then?

So i think it would be a good sollution suggested now by Bernie: make new tyres with the Kevlar belt, give them a few days (all teams) to test them properly and we can continue and hopefully close this whole tyre subject and concentrate on the racing instead.

Just my opinion.

Yes and no. Adrian Newey talked about safety, as did Vettel. Horner apparently said the wear was too much but I didn't see that, but I'll trust others information on that. Prior to Canada, Ferrari and Force India (who were against the changes) suffered issues in Barcelona and Bahrain, and these were cars with low wear rates. So they can all sit and argue who was right and wrong, but it doesn't matter - the issue is not a wear rate, and the tyrs HAVE to change to solve this. Some have clearly stated that they want it changed for safety, some have said otherwise.

I agree not all motives were purely on safety, but some have been. But for Ferrari and Force India to sit and say there are no need to change, despite numerous failures, and then suddenly change their mind after Silverstone, is a joke. That's EXACTLY what Red Bull did, but from the opposite side. They wanted to keep the tyres as they are purely because it benefits them.



This was why Pirelli suggested using the 2012 tyres, since they are a known quantity, and they were denied.

Well, it might look like a joke, but there is not much else they can do now? If they would keep insisting using these tyres after the failures then it would be even a bigger joke. I do understand your point though.





Again, we don't know to what extent Ferrari (and others) have designed or put so much energy and design so that their car would suit these tyres pretty well. Up until the Canadian Grand Prix it looked as if the Red Bulls and Mercedesses had gone for speed in qualifying (fresh tyres), whereas Lotus and Ferrari have opted to have a car that is more friendly in race trim to the tyres. If you spent millions, you don't want that to be thrown away I think just like that.

Then I raise another question, why was this not known/discovered during winter testing? They do so many testing, they do whole race distances etc etc . Off course temperatures are lower, and it is only a few circuits, but still. If there is really a big tyre issue then it should have come up back then, not? Perhaps it did, I haven't been following winter testing...

Gary Anderson finally says what we've all been saying about Whitmarsh
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/formula1/23130753

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Great race, imo.

Throughly enjoyed all 3 days at the track. Just need to sort through my photos.

Plus I made the Sky Sports coverage

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"Many people ask me why I always sign off Till We Meet Again, because goodbye is always so final. Goodbye Dan Wheldon." -Marty Reid