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Watched video again. Yea he does leave more room, but not masses. And yea, Massa over-cooked it a little bit. But it's the chap doing the overtaking who is meant to ensure its a clean pass.

Massa didn't lock up, hit the apex and didn't run excessively wide.

A similar incident to Maldonado/Hamilton in Valencia. Massa could have done more to avoid it, but ultimately the blame lies with Webber.

Nothing like Maldonado and Hamilton, not in the slightest. Both drivers have a responsibility, I'm not saying Webber isn't entirely blameless but Massa did more to contribute to the incident than Mark.

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Perez! Since he was announced at McLaren his performances went down and he went crazy, spinning, crashing, forcing other drivers off track, Perez is out of control

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Well Withmarshe's little favorite was well off Hamilton's pace when it mattered in qualifying and race. He drove an fairly invisible race until he was caught by Vettel. Then he did well holding him off but finally he lost. The German commentators even praised Button as the "fair guy" whom you can overtake round the outside without worrying. That's just wrong for an alleged top driver. With a podium at stake I would expect him to fight as hard as possible and I hadn't this feeling today once again.

Maybe it is a bit harsh and was provoked by the German broadcasting commentary.

Webber for the start at least, I don't understand why he's allowed to get away with such crappy starts race after race and yet he doesn't do anything about it.

If I were red bull I'd sit him in the simulator in the off season with matchsticks in his eyes, clockwork orange style, forcing him to sit there for however long it takes until he gets it right continuously.

Then the crashes, c'mon Mark, you're on the outside of people, they're not going to disappear.

Not blaming him for his race-ending crash though.
F**king kids *throws up*

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I think that makes him more the "talented guy". He fought as hard as he could without causing contact. There's a line, and knowing where that is is the difference between drivers like Button and a lot of the F1 field.

Eh?



Or, he was using his head? Like good racing driver's do. He knew he couldn't keep Vettel behind him, so instead of a possible accident he let Vettel pass him. And perhaps because there was so much going on, he got mentioned less? What are the commentators going to talk about. A good solid drive to 4th or the championship battle and incidents.

To be honest there were better farce's of the races than someone who finished 4th. Jeez

Had to vote for Webber ... another tardy start, less than sparkling pace, and fortunate to escape a penalty for the incident with Maldonado, then I think a driver of his experience should have seen the Perez/Grosjean scenario coming and hung back rather than trying to jump through the middle of it on the throttle ... easy for me to say, probably.

1/4, 1/2, 3/4, it's all the same. He wasn't past him. Why should Maldonado just back out and let him past? It was entirely Webber's responsibility to leave room, and he didn't.

Webber chopped across as if he was alone on the track.

Even I voted Webber as much as it pains me. He was as unlucky as Seb was lucky, but you make your own luck to some extent, and he wouldn't have been in the position with Massa and then Perez had he not fluffed the start and made a meal of passing Pastor.

Also Massa and Perez for being pillocks.

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I left Webber out of the Felipe incident because that was racing, there was room upon returning to the track and Felipe spun because he clouted the curb and stabbed the throttle with a brick ... all he really needed to do was make it through the turn, ahead of Webber or not, because Mark would need to give the position back if he gained it off the track. Felipe lost it ...

Webber, that was some dumb driving

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Webber got screwed in 2 accidents (Massa, and the final one), without a doubt, but I don't buy the excuse of "He was only in that pack because of the pit stop to get him out of the way of Sebastian"

2 reasons that isn't a good enough excuse. First, he fucked his own start. He was what, 6th by turn 1, and then Alonso got him later in the lap? So he'd already compromised his entire race - a race where he should've easily been in second, and won when Lewis retired.

Secondly, the pit stop that moved him out of the way. You could argue it was team orders (and I'd probably agree), but Mark made it clear he wasn't going to yield to his team mate. On one hand you could say that is admirable, on the other hand you could say he has had his shot, and blown it, it's time to play the team game which F1 is. It wasn't like Massa at Ferrari where they've moved him out of the way early on in the season - he blew his shot at the title, and Red Bull needed Sebastian ahead to keep his title challenge damage limited. So unfortunately for Mark, it's time to play the team game and there was obviously doubts on the pit wall whether or not he would. Had he not fucked up his own race, he'd have been ahead of a bunch of cars, never had to be moved out of the way and never had to battle cars lower down. It all resulted from his start

Mark did have some bad luck and it isn't fair to say everything that happened was his fault, but everything that happened was a result of him being out of position from his lap 1 mess.

I don't mean in that the collision was in the 2nd part of the chicane, more that both drivers could have done more to avoid a collision, neither did and the one who got away with it was the one doing the passing (who has the responsibility to ensure a pass is clean).

I see your point nea but I still disagree. In any part of racing, each and every competitor has a responsibility to take care and behave correctly on track and around competitors. If you are being attacked then you have a responsibility to ensure your defensive measures are clean.

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I went with Perez and Webber pretty much for the same reasons already mentioned.

I remember the commentator was saying it was an easy podium for Webber from where he was starting but I figured he'd mess up the start like he usually does. Of course from that point he was always going to be going backwards since the Red Bull isn't good in a straight line. His overtakes were poor as well.

Perez of course for causing collision. How do you justify just joining back on track in anyway you please? And this is guy going to McLaren?

Massa & Webber.

Mark for incidents and Felipe for his amateurish spin