TBK-Light.com :: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread

Wake flow details

The OWG study found that the area of the front wing that degrades first is the central section – which means if you can make that part neutral in terms of delivering downforce then it will ensure cars do not lose performance when following another car.

So if the current plan for a wider car comes to fruition – a wider neutral section of front wing would actually ensure that there is less performance loss than the current design when in another car's wake.

That will be especially true if the teams can ensure that the wake generated by the rear wing end plates is not allowed to disrupt the airflow either.

When asked whether there is any reason to suspect that the cars will be less able to follow each other from 2017, Lowe said: "I think there is some evidence to suggest that they may be actually better.

"Although I am not an aerodynamicist but based on aerodynamic experience and judgement, one of the features of the current cars is the front wing is used not only to create downforce at the front.

"It also is used to create important flow structures through the car, particularly to drive performance to the floor. Its function also is to counteract the losses that follow the front tyres.

"If a car is in the wake, then that function will also be disturbed as well as the loss of front downforce causing understeer.

"If we move to wider track and you widen the front wing, and also widen the tires and move them outboard, then the reliance on the front wing for not just downforce but also flow conditioning downstream, is much reduced.

"Therefore you would maintain floor performance much better in the wake as well.

"So the expectation, without having tested it, is that some of this direction should actually improve the following car's performance even if the absolute performance has gone up."

For F1 fans, faster cars that can follow each other better, is very good news.

Author:	kals [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 6:50 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
What driver aids???

Author:	Gaara [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:08 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Press this switch so the car does this in this corner, press that button for the straight and that button for the hairpin. Turn that dial so you save more fuel. Those I guess.

Author:	StefMeister [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Not a fan of a Saturday race at all. I like the current system, I like the traditional 1 race format... Just see zero reason to change that aspect of F1.

Author:	alex1369 [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
StefMeister wrote: Not a fan of a Saturday race at all. I like the current system, I like the traditional 1 race format... Just see zero reason to change that aspect of F1. Me too, whats wrong if 1 race on sunday? If its like that since 1950, whats wrong with it now??

Author:	Gaara [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:31 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
You can bet a quali race will be a parade, no one wanting to risk starting at the back on Sunday. Well except anyone already starting the quali race from the back.

TBK-Light.com https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/

2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=9013	Page 133 of 207

Author:	StefMeister [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
I've seen some suggestion that part of the proposal with the Saturday race is that x positions will be reversed on the grid for Sunday's race Wider cars, Wider tyres, less driver assistance & the stuff around engine noise, development & penalty's are things I like the sound of & the stuff about new wings & floor shape to generate more downforce is stuff which i'd like to hear more about before judging (Floor shape could indicate some form of ground effects?). The Saturday race though is utter bollocks, especially if they are looking at reverse grids.

Author:	Fabs [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 8:59 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
More races, more chance of rain.

Author:	LucasWheldon [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:04 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
they should create a rule imposing a limit of 5 buttons on cockpit and radio only from stewards to drivers

Author:	Metzo [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Fabs wrote: More races, more chance of rain. more chance of boredom as well

Author:	kals [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Metzo wrote: Fabs wrote: More races, more chance of rain. more chance of boredom as well more chance of F1 losing grip on it's identity

Author:	micha [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:17 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Have they completely lost it? Also. I give it 4 years and aids are legal again because it's too hard to enforce the ban and we had tons of accusations.

Author:	JJ [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:22 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Gotta love Strategy Group's logic: Fans, drivers and Bernie say the problem is in the racing which is artificial and boring but NOT in the weekend format and especially NOT in the qualifying. And then they double the boring racing by making F1 similar to the feeder series and consequently undermine the importance of the qualifying and the Grand Prix tradition that has lasted 65 years. If they are stupid enough to make this happen, I really hope it's just one-year deal like double points. Otherwise, as a fan, it becomes really difficult to come up with any good reasons to pay for this gimmicky crap. Oh, and once more

Author:	Justin Time [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:24 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
micha wrote: Have they completely lost it? Also. I give it 4 years and aids are legal again because it's too hard to enforce the ban and we had tons of accusations. I don't know, they have to have standard electronics nowadays, and how I read it, the main focus will be the starting procedure which is more or less automated at the moment. That's one of the reasons the starts became so predictable - it has become a race for the best reaction time and that was it. The bite-point of the clutch, etc. is all done electronically.

Author:	kals [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:25 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Just be done with it and bring the Chase format into F1. There I said it.

Author:	asshat [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:02 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Have always thought they should do a Saturday race. Friday: practice + Quali Saturday: warmup + 1/2 points reverse grid sprint race (carnage!) Sunday: Normal race Glad they are going towards more manual starts. When they banned TC I was quite excited by the prospect of lots of wheelspin and smoke at the starts. This whole doubleclutchlettheelectroncisdomostofit is rubbish.

Page 133 of 207	All times are UTC+01:00
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Limited https://www.phpbb.com/

Author:	Fabs [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:41 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Just stop watching F1. Oh wait not an option.

Author:	kals [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:43 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Fabs wrote: Just stop watching F1. SORRY BUT HOW?

Author:	Tobias [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
I rather have 22 drivers fighting it out on the simulator on multiplayer. That should bring the cost down significantly.

Author:	kals [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:05 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
Tobias wrote: I rather have 22 drivers fighting it out on the simulator on multiplayer. That should bring the cost down significantly. Would also cut down on travel and shipping costs. Not sure how the teams would manage corporate hospitality for the sponsors though.

Author:	StefMeister [ Thu Jul 02, 2015 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:	Re: 2015 Random F1 Discussion Thread
I saw this article a week ago which goes into the thinking behind wider cars+tyres as well as the Overtaking Working Group research from 2007/2008 that led to the 2009 aero changes: http://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/analy ... for-racing But here's the relevant part about the wider cars/tyres: Quote: Wake flow details The OWG study found that the area of the front wing that degrades first is the central section – which means if you can make that part neutral in terms of delivering downforce then it will ensure cars do not lose performance when following another car. So if the current plan for a wider car comes to fruition – a wider neutral section of front wing would actually ensure that there is less performance loss than the current design when in another car's wake. That will be especially true if the teams can ensure that the wake generated by the rear wing end plates is not allowed to disrupt the airflow either. When asked whether there is any reason to suspect that the cars will be less able to follow each other from 2017, Lowe said: "I think there is some evidence to suggest that they may be actually better. "Although I am not an aerodynamicist but based on aerodynamic experience and judgement, one of the features of the current cars is the front wing is used not only to create downforce at the front. "It also is used to create important flow structures through the car, particularly to drive performance to the floor. Its function also is to counteract the losses that follow the front tyres. "If a car is in the wake, then that function will also be disturbed as well as the loss of front downforce causing understeer. "If we move to wider track and you widen the front wing, and also widen the tires and move them outboard, then the reliance on the front wing for not just downforce but also flow conditioning downstream, is much reduced. "Therefore you would maintain floor performance much better in the wake as well. "So the expectation, without having tested it, is that some of this direction should actually improve the following car's performance even if the absolute performance has gone up." For F1 fans, faster cars that can follow each other better, is very good news. Basically the car/tyre width is going to be as they were in 1992 I believe: If only they could get the rest of the car looking as good as they did back then.... Or is that just nostalgia talking since there the cars I grew up watching?