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Maria de Villota injured
https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=7672		 Page 14 of 15
Author:  ellis [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 4:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Gaara wrote:
No, I think the bumper bar is low enough that the car probably wouldn't go underneath it, or it would at least have slowed it to a stop. Besides, it's not as sharp as the edge of the ramp is and the helmet most likely would stand up better.


The bumper on these trucks are pretty high. If you sit on the ground your head is around level with it.They often have areo panels on the side to streamline them a bit, but those are just panels on the side. Helmets can stand up well but still have serious consequences - Henry Surtress impact was as blunt as it came unfortunately.

Edit: Fixed my broken quotes.
Author:  Gaara [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 5:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Apparently she's still critical but the surgeons are pleased with her overnight progress and seems there's no swelling on the brain.
Author:  Mercedes5CLR [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 10:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Tobias wrote:
someone is going to be in trouble over this. Although the truck could not move forward any more.

Image


I am pretty sure that the truck on the lower right hand side, the one that she hit is not capable of loading of a car. I believe this transporter carries the tents and other gear.. Is this truck apart of the team or a hired company that might not have the same safety procedures.

I believe that the cars trailer and team trailer is the on the upper left side of the picture that has the tail gate down and leads into the tent itself.
Author:  Ayrton S. [ Thu Jul 05, 2012 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
You're probably right. I didn't think that.
Author:  Philthy82 [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Ian-S wrote:
who would have thought an experienced racing driver would forget to engage neutral when coming to a stop...?


Mind telling me where you're getting this info from, or is it just bullshit speculation like everything else in this thread?
Author:  Mäth [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Probably from ear-witnesses who heard the car accelerate suddendly, which is PROBABLY due to the anti-stall system kicking in. That would have been avoided had she engaged neutral near the tent.
Author:  Ian-S [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Philthy82 wrote:
Ian-S wrote:
who would have thought an experienced racing driver would forget to engage neutral when coming to a stop...?


Mind telling me where you're getting this info from, or is it just bullshit speculation like everything else in this thread?


Listen to the audio, it's very informative.

I'll apologise for using my 30 years experience to form an opinion if I'm wrong, however if I am correct, I'll expect one from you for your attitude.
Author:  codename_47 [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
F1 detectives ITT

I'd echo what someone posted earlier though, maybe this accident will lead to the FIA to look into Visor-area helmet safety and see if anything can be done to beef that up.

Obviously it's always going to be a compromise between clear vision to avoid accidents vs strong visor to prevent the ones that happen but its obviously something to think about after accidents like this happen.
Author:  Philthy82 [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Ian-S wrote:
Philthy82 wrote:
Ian-S wrote:
who would have thought an experienced racing driver would forget to engage neutral when coming to a stop...?


Mind telling me where you're getting this info from, or is it just bullshit speculation like everything else in this thread?


Listen to the audio, it's very informative.

I'll apologise for using my 30 years experience to form an opinion if I'm wrong, however if I am correct, I'll expect one from you for your attitude.


LOL, sure I'll apologise for suggesting it's wrong for couch jockeys to criticise a comatose driver for an alleged mistake theorised out of vague evidence available on the interwebs.
Author:  Ian-S [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:49 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Philthy82 wrote:
Ian-S wrote:
Philthy82 wrote:

Mind telling me where you're getting this info from, or is it just bullshit speculation like everything else in this thread?


Listen to the audio, it's very informative.

I'll apologise for using my 30 years experience to form an opinion if I'm wrong, however if I am correct, I'll expect one from you for your attitude.


LOL, sure I'll apologise for suggesting it's wrong for couch jockeys to criticise a comatose driver for an alleged mistake theorised out of vague evidence available on the interwebs.


That's a nice and varied vocabulary you've got there.

I don't remember criticising her either.

As for anti-stall Scotty, it depends on what kind of system they're running, most systems (in F1) will take over throttle control, usually engaging it to 40-50% and drag the clutch (hence the bullshit speculation based on witness accounts & audio) to which the driver must over-ride the anti-stall programming, usually by pressing a button on the steering wheel. It will only fully engage the clutch to release drive after 10 seconds (as per the FIA regulations).

I would expect the audio will be a key piece on the investigation too, what may be jumbled noise to one person, could be vital information to another.
Author:  Gabriel [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Just managed to read today about Maria's condition. This fucking sucks. I'm so sad for her.
Author:  Ian-S [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
I don't know the specifics but I think they just banned IRM rather than banning fly-by-wire altogether.

Edit, the ECU is a spec system from McLaren isn't it? But I think they can run different "approved" software on it, so yeah I'm pretty sure they just banned the ECU from running different engine mapping based on where the throttle pedal was, I'm 90% sure the only time they can run different maps now is when the anti-stall kicks in, or what I think they call idle-control (choke to anybody over 40 :lol:)
Author:  Starlancer [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:27 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
So some of you would rather die than lose an eye? Huh...

I hope I misunderstood.

My Grandfather lost his sight completely in his teens, and has lived a perfectly full life regardless of it all the way into his 90's now. It sucks, but as long as she's ok otherwise after what happened, she should count herself as nothing except for extremely fortunate.
Author:  Ian-S [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:35 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Starlancer wrote:
I hope I misunderstood..


Well that would make two of us then, cos I didn't understand that attitude either.
Author:  EAS [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Starlancer wrote:
So some of you would rather die than lose an eye? Huh...

I hope I misunderstood.


I think you did. Some said before that surviving sometimes isn't a good thing considering the sequelae. Anyway, I think it isn't exactly the case of being 'happy' for her survival giving the consequences of the accident.
Author:  BrainPain [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Personally, I think she'd prefer living before dying. It is just bullshit speculation from my part though.
Author:  Coldtyre [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
I think that the forum reactions preferring death to sequels were posted before we knew the extent of her injuries. There could have been worse brain damage, and starting from some point of incapacity it is legitimate to wonder if you'd rather live or die.

I read somewhere that in general, even people who fear handicap the most usually cope a lot better with catastrophic injuries than you would expect them to.
Author:  aerogi [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
about rather being dead or alive... it's difficult to draw a line. Loosing one eye is not a reason for that. Being paralyzed for the rest of your life is another story.

But everyone seems to forget there is more than just yourself. Remember your family/friends/children, I'do basically everything to be alive for my kids and/or family. Even if I'd have to be chained to a wheelchair for the rest of my life for example.

But again, totally paralyzed, or not able to communicate anymore is another story.
Author:  Ian-S [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
Scotty wrote:
Ian-S wrote:
I don't know the specifics but I think they just banned IRM rather than banning fly-by-wire altogether.


I thought fly-by-wire was banned back in the early naughties actually, but I'm splitting hairs here. I'm sure the real experts know what happened.


Is it Matt that works at one of the teams? maybe he can confirm, I'm pretty sure the throttle is connected to the ECU which controls the engine, there's no actual physical connection between the throttle and the fuel injection system (no throttle cable so to speak, hence the nickname 32bit throttle). That's how the hot blowing diffusers worked, the driver would hit a button to change the engine mapping (or it was done automatically), when he lifted off the throttle, the ECU would keep the throttle open but dial back the torque to virtually nothing, then the mapping would then adjust back to "power" setting when he hit the throttle again. When the FIA banned blown diffusers, they didn't really ban them because they were only ever bit of software, not a physical item, so they banned engine mapping adjustments while at speed and made the teams match engine torque to throttle position, that made the hot blown diffuser concept impossible to attain overnight, moving the exhaust covered the other ways it was possible to user a hot blown diffuser, or closed a loophole the teams could have used.

The reason I'm a bit sceptical about the clutch being fully engaged in anti-stall, is because when we've seen it happen, it sounds like the ECU takes over throttle control and drags the clutch, I'm not sure that having the clutch fully engage at full throttle because the revs have dropped low would either do the engine a lot of good, or be a great idea with all the cars behind (both the throttle and clutch would need to be controlled artificially to avoid damage), in comparison it would be like the car that has anti-stall active would be braking compared to the others. There's a clause in the regulations that says see appendix blah blah regarding this, basically the ECU must shutdown the engine after 10 seconds if certain parameters are met, there's also some other stuff in there about the medical light in the cockpit is tied to the ADL and ECU and all 3 have to work in unison.

Anyway yeah, splitting hairs which is fine with me, we could talk about our theories on how the ECU works for weeks I don't mind, at least we're not speculating about Maria, blaming her or saying anything that might be upsetting for GenX... :lol:
Author:  ryan86 [ Fri Jul 06, 2012 2:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Maria de Villota injured
I think everyone's dead/alive line will come at a different point, based on your outlook on life (postive/negative) and what you've got to live for. I think at some points the fear of what life might be like may be worse than the reality.
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