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Maybe but it's hard to say. For example Webber out qualified Vettel at Abu Dhabi before Vettels penalty. When Lewis broke, Webber should've won that race comfortably. But he fucked the start and ended up about 7th before lap 1 was over. His starts are horrific which is where most of the time goes, and sometimes he has just down right terrible laps. His Valencia 2010 accident essentially happened because he went from the front to the back in 1 lap, and Red Bull had to pit him to get him out of traffic.

Are there any good, FREE, F1 apps? Not gonna pay $34 for the official one...

I've often thought that there might be something Vettel's driving style, having grown up on the modern breed of circuit, and with many Tilke circuits sharing similar traits, that makes him suited to these circuits ...

Webber came through the ranks before the real raft of Tilke circuits, and when F3000 would have been visiting Silverstone (one of Webber's home tracks), Magny Cours, Spa, old Hockenheim, Nurburgring (another Webber track - win in 2009, strong in 2011 on Vettel's off weekend of 4th), Imola, Barcelona, Hungaboring (where he's done well), Monza and Monaco. This will have influenced his natural style of driving, and perhaps his driving style isn't as well suited, or adaptable to the new breed of circuits ...

Alonso came through F3000 at more or less the same time, although Fernando was plucked out of it for Webber's 2001 season, but Alonso's driving seems much more adaptable to car and circuit demands ... remember how he used to drive the Renault cars? Highly unusual front end handling on all of those cars. Into the McLaren, totally different car and style of driving. Likewise he's scored victories at Tilke Fuji, Korea, Malaysia (thrice), Bahrain (twice), Valencia, Tilkenheim (thrice, I think), and Shanghai. I've not counted Singapore as it's a street circuit, but he's won there twice as well. 12-14/30 wins.

It's the same story as Webber for Button really ... he's won in Malaysia (Rain and Bad Light Stopped Play), Bahrain and Turkey, but during the 2009 Brawn perfect storm, China since then but in the damp 2010 race, other than that you wouldn't say that Button looks at his strongest on the newer breed of circuit, strangely, as I would have actually put their technical nature as suiting Button's smooth style. (4/15 total wins.)

Whilst not a huge percentage of his total wins (6/21), Lewis Hamilton can boast wins at China (twice), Tilkenheim, Tilke Fuji (Underwater World Edition), Abu Dhabi and Circuit of the AMERICAs.

Pre-2009 Massa, the one that actually won races, could be considered something of a Tilke specialist with his brace of victories (three) in Turkey, two in the Kingdom of Bahrain and one at Valencia. 6 of his 11 wins ...

Kimi has two victories in Malaysia, one in Turkey, one in China and one in Abu Dhabi, a total of 5 of his 19 ... similar to Hamilton, this shows that Kimi can win at a range of different Tilke circuits, but that perhaps his natural driving style errs towards that demanded of the traditional European circuits - we know he essentially has property at Spa, and was pretty handy around Suzuka in 2005 as well. Kimi is more from the Button, Webber, Alonso era of junior Formulae ...

I know a lot (not really that much, I read it in at most two places) is made about his turn in technique, which works best with lots of rear grip coming from the diffuser, to almost lose the rear end before it suddenly grips with the diffuser, something like a four-wheel drift. This has been evidenced by Webber's stronger relative performance before the exhaust blown diffuser, when it was banned at Silverstone, and again earlier this year before Red Bull got the car working more to Vettel's liking, and perhaps less to Mark's ...

I guess that's true. Maybe it's not Webber being particularly bad - except at Abu Dhabi really - but that Vettel is just so good on them. I guess you could make a similar claim for Hamilton against Button on the Tilke circuits, but not to the same extent.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I'm evidently short of things to do because I've updated my above post to include more of that sort of thing ...

I think with the whole Pirelli-KERS-DRS coming in 2011, everyone forgot about circuit specialists. Some drivers suit certain circuits. The current lot are very good such that they're great everywhere, except for a few tracks. But if you look down the years, in pure pace and results, they seem to have that extra skill at certain places:

- Vettel: Valencia, Suzuka, Buddh
- Hamilton: Montreal, Hungaroring, Yas Marina
- Button: Albert Park
- Webber: Monaco, Silverstone
- Alonso: Hockenheim, well, everywhere really! Although Spa's a bogey circuit.
- Rosberg: China, Singapore
- Massa: Istanbul Park, Interlagos

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Hamilton and Alonso are also strong each year in Singapore.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

True. I'd be pretty much ready to give Vettel 'everywhere' along with Alonso - who if he has specialities, is pretty nifty at Singapore. Button does pretty well around the Hungaboring on the quiet, or maybe it just rains there - it pretty much just rains there. He's not a specialist in the way Damon Hill was, and Stallone, but that was different.

We mustn't (it's not that important if we do) forget that a big reason why Alonso hasn't won at Spa would be a certain Kimi Raikkonen, who given a competitive car is essentially has one hand on the champagne/trophy ... Alonso shared the podium with him in 2005 and 2007, with the 2005 McLaren being the faster (but still more fragile) car by that stage. Throw in a couple of accidents, 2010 being his own fault, 2012 not. I'm sure he'd want a win there before the end of his career though ... smashed it in F3000 if I recall.

Massa seems to pretty well at all anti-clockwise circuits it seems.

I wonder if Hulkenberg will end up being a Brazil specialist when we look back in a few years time....

Putting a 2010 Williams on pole and leading in a Force India is no mean feat....

Yes, you could argue, rain, but it's still quiet an achievement.

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RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

No discredit to Hulkenburg but 2010 was down to right place right time with the weather in quali, he really wasn't all that quick in the race. 2012 was very good, but he needs a couple more performances like that at Sao Paulo before we can call him a circuit specialist.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

I suppose, but I kind of have a dim memory of him securing pole at the right time then when the "big boys" were doing their laps doing another lap to increase his advantage instead of it just being a one lap wonder....

But I agree it's too early to tell, the ingredients are there but he needs to show it a few more times before we add him to the list.

_________________
RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

Yeah, Hulkenberg was on track with the others. They couldn't match him.

Alonso in Spa 2010 wasn't really his fault. He crashed because the car finally gave up on him after that hefty impact from Barrichello.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Never knew that, I always thought it was aquaplaning and can remember the Italian media blaming him for that.

It was aquaplaning as well, yes. It had just begun to rain heavier IIRC, but I'm sure I remember him saying it was exacerbated by the damage to the car.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I've never read any story or suggestion that Alonso's retirement in Spa 2010 was thanks to his car. The spin was caused by him using too much curb on the exit of Malmedy.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

First look at the 2013 McLaren MP4-28A (odd designation!) chassis #1



Exciting, isn't it?

Why is that odd?

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

The only time McLaren seem to use the A/B/C/D designation at the end of the chassis type number is when it's a revision (like the MP4-17D) and not a new one. Does this mean that they had a redesign at some point or am I just reading way too much into it?

Reading too much into it. IIRC they're always called MP4-xA. Well, the 26 and 27 were.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011