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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 10:18 am 
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First race since Nurburgring 1999 without M Schumacher or Hamilton on the grid

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:32 am 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:34 am 
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Hamilton will still find a way to ruin all the fun.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 11:38 am 
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Juihi wrote:
Fabs wrote:
Woops, time for Bottas' "to whom it may concern".

Actually hope whoever replaces Hamilton thrashes Bottas, the dude is a complete waste of a seat

People won't like what I'm about to say, but the reverse could happen: maybe whoever replaces him will struggle just as much as Bottas, get beaten up fair and square by Verstappen or even Albon, and show everyone that Mercedes isn't that superior this year when driven by an average driver without Hamilton's talent, hard work and brilliant tyre/car management.

(yes, I'm praising Hamilton - hit me sideways with a stick :lol: ).


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:10 pm 
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well, time to see how an unexperienced driver behaves on a 2x car

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:15 pm 
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Not an ideal track for Bottas to prove he's good. The laptime will be just ~55 seconds and the long straight won't make big differences between drivers. If it was Abu Dhabi weekend, I'm sure Bottas would trash whoever replaces Hamilton. Now, I'm not so sure.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 12:34 pm 
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it is also a lucky strike for the one who'll fill the spot, since this track is simpler and relies on raw speed

but might struggle with tire wear, something Hamilton excells in that car

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:33 pm 
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I hope Hamilton misses the Abu Dhabi too, so we can see how well Vandoorne can adopt to the car and where's his pace compared to Bottas.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:38 pm 
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Has Vandoorne ever driven this car? Afaik he didn't, will be tough to get up to speed.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:42 pm 
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I'll be surprised if it's not Russell in the car tbh


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 2:52 pm 
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James B wrote:
I'll be surprised if it's not Russell in the car tbh


in 2009 Fisichella had a good season in the Force India but couldnt get to grips with the Ferrari when subbing for Massa. I doubt Russell would do any better on such short notice. Vandoorne might know the simulated version of the car at least.

Perez might even be a better option as he is already used to the 2019 Mercedes so the step to the 2020 might be smaller.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:01 pm 
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micha wrote:
James B wrote:
I'll be surprised if it's not Russell in the car tbh


in 2009 Fisichella had a good season in the Force India but couldnt get to grips with the Ferrari when subbing for Massa. I doubt Russell would do any better on such short notice. Vandoorne might know the simulated version of the car at least.

Perez might even be a better option as he is already used to the 2019 Mercedes so the step to the 2020 might be smaller.


Hulkenberg was able to jump into the Racing Point with literally no relevant experience, after several months out of the car, on a tough circuit and still did a decent job. Russell's been racing all year - he's going to be a lot more ready than Vandoorne who's only driven Formula E cars, which - with no disrespect to Formula E - is completely irrelevant to driving an F1 car. I don't buy that the simulator is relevant either - it's why they're not sending for Gutierrez or Davidson - but even if it was, I imagine Russell will have been at Brackley to do a bit of sim work, especially as he tested the car last year

Fisi struggled in 2009 because the Ferrari was an incredibly difficult car to drive. He went from a car without KERS to a car with KERS and the balance was all different. The cars of today are a lot more similar. I don't expect Russell to be on Bottas' pace but I think he'll get into Q3 and have a decent chance of a podium. With Vandoorne, he hasn't stepped in an F1 car for 2 years - I think you'd likely see him at the back of the grid, regardless of how good that car is. Mercedes might have won everything but they want to keep winning - that's why Russell has to be the #1 choice. Roberto Chinchero seems to be confirming that: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... e/4919241/


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:03 pm 
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James B wrote:
I'll be surprised if it's not Russell in the car tbh


I can see Williams people flashing their eyes with dollar signs claiming "oh bugger he's under contract so we can only release him by *expleted 8 figure value* euros"

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:07 pm 
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James B wrote:
micha wrote:
James B wrote:
I'll be surprised if it's not Russell in the car tbh


in 2009 Fisichella had a good season in the Force India but couldnt get to grips with the Ferrari when subbing for Massa. I doubt Russell would do any better on such short notice. Vandoorne might know the simulated version of the car at least.

Perez might even be a better option as he is already used to the 2019 Mercedes so the step to the 2020 might be smaller.


Hulkenberg was able to jump into the Racing Point with literally no relevant experience, after several months out of the car, on a tough circuit and still did a decent job. Russell's been racing all year - he's going to be a lot more ready than Vandoorne who's only driven Formula E cars, which - with no disrespect to Formula E - is completely irrelevant to driving an F1 car. I don't buy that the simulator is relevant either - it's why they're not sending for Gutierrez or Davidson - but even if it was, I imagine Russell will have been at Brackley to do a bit of sim work, especially as he tested the car last year

Fisi struggled in 2009 because the Ferrari was an incredibly difficult car to drive. He went from a car without KERS to a car with KERS and the balance was all different. The cars of today are a lot more similar. I don't expect Russell to be on Bottas' pace but I think he'll get into Q3 and have a decent chance of a podium. With Vandoorne, he hasn't stepped in an F1 car for 2 years - I think you'd likely see him at the back of the grid, regardless of how good that car is. Mercedes might have won everything but they want to keep winning - that's why Russell has to be the #1 choice. Roberto Chinchero seems to be confirming that: https://it.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-me ... e/4919241/


While you might be correct I don't see any direct benefit for Williams to let him go. While he did mess up points on several occasions he is still, on paper, their best shot at points.

Merc might offer Vandoorne in the deal but then you get the stuff you just said about him.

I think Merc is going to be the gentleman here and give it to Vandoorne as there isnt much on the line for them anymore this season.


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:08 pm 
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What could possibly be gained from putting Russell in?
It will hurt Williams who are still in a fight for championship position with Haas.
It could hurt Russell if he messes up.
It could hurt Mercedes and Bottas if Russell beats Bottas.
It would hurt their relationship with their appointed reserve driver.
And for what? It's not like Russell will go to Mercedes next year and the cars in 2022 will be completely different.

FWIW: in terms of fitting the candidates in the car, this a comparison of their heights:
Hamilton: 1m74 / 5' 8.5
Vandoorne: 1m77 / 5' 9"
Hulkenberg: 1m84 / 6' 0.4"
George Russell: 1m85 / 6' 1”


Last edited by Shaddix on Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:19 pm 
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It would be hilarious if they put Russell in the car and he flops miserably :lol: That wouldn't silence his fanboys of course but would bring him much closer to DTM :twisted:

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:29 pm 
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:51 pm 
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I've noticed that a lot of posts about George Russell on social media are met with laughing faces - pretty much all from one nationality...

I think he'd be a good shout, although who would drive for Williams?


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:51 pm 
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micha wrote:
While you might be correct I don't see any direct benefit for Williams to let him go. While he did mess up points on several occasions he is still, on paper, their best shot at points.

Merc might offer Vandoorne in the deal but then you get the stuff you just said about him.

I think Merc is going to be the gentleman here and give it to Vandoorne as there isnt much on the line for them anymore this season.


Mercedes aren't in F1 to be gentlemen. They're in it to win races and score as many points as possible. Russell gives them a much better chance of that than Vandoorne

Shaddix wrote:
What could possibly be gained from putting Russell in?
It will hurt Williams who are still in a fight for championship position with Haas.
It could hurt Russell if he messes up.
It could hurt Mercedes and Bottas if Russell beats Bottas.
It would hurt their relationship with their appointed reserve driver.
And for what? It's not like Russell will go to Mercedes next year and the cars in 2022 will be completely different.


What will be gained will be not having a car at the back of the grid. Ultimately whatever the risks to Russell's reputation by putting him in the car, I can't see how he'll do worse than Vandoorne, given he's a lot more prepared for the situation. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get out of Q2, and astonished if he doesn't get out of Q1. Bear minimum, he'll be around Albon's pace. That's enough to get solid points in the race, and potentially put himself in a position to pick up the pieces if Bottas has yet another problem

I think the risk to Vandoorne's reputation is a lot greater than it is to Russell's here - Vandoorne's probably finished as far as F1's concerned anyway, but he's definitely finished if he jumps into that Mercedes and can't get out of Q1, and there's a decent chance that'll happen, because he's not going to be prepared for driving that car on Friday. He'd be an absolute laughing stock. I know that'd be entirely unfair - he's a very talented driver who didn't get the breaks he deserved in F1, but it's how it'd be interpreted by the wider public, like Villeneuve's Renault appearances or Badoer's Ferrari races

Ultimately every F1 race is a risk to a driver's reputation. I'm sure Mercedes won't be scared of the impact it'd have on Russell - otherwise they wouldn't be backing him. I'm sure Russell isn't scared either. And I don't see how Williams can stand in his way, unless Mercedes did a really bad job of the contract when they loaned him. Surely they put release clauses in for exactly this sort of eventuality, because that's what lawyers are for


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PostPosted: Tue Dec 01, 2020 3:58 pm 
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James B wrote:
What will be gained will be not having a car at the back of the grid. Ultimately whatever the risks to Russell's reputation by putting him in the car, I can't see how he'll do worse than Vandoorne, given he's a lot more prepared for the situation. I'd be surprised if he doesn't get out of Q2, and astonished if he doesn't get out of Q1. Bear minimum, he'll be around Albon's pace. That's enough to get solid points in the race, and potentially put himself in a position to pick up the pieces if Bottas has yet another problem

I think the risk to Vandoorne's reputation is a lot greater than it is to Russell's here - Vandoorne's probably finished as far as F1's concerned anyway, but he's definitely finished if he jumps into that Mercedes and can't get out of Q1, and there's a decent chance that'll happen, because he's not going to be prepared for driving that car on Friday. He'd be an absolute laughing stock. I know that'd be entirely unfair - he's a very talented driver who didn't get the breaks he deserved in F1, but it's how it'd be interpreted by the wider public, like Villeneuve's Renault appearances or Badoer's Ferrari races

Ultimately every F1 race is a risk to a driver's reputation. I'm sure Mercedes won't be scared of the impact it'd have on Russell - otherwise they wouldn't be backing him. I'm sure Russell isn't scared either. And I don't see how Williams can stand in his way, unless Mercedes did a really bad job of the contract when they loaned him. Surely they put release clauses in for exactly this sort of eventuality, because that's what lawyers are for

I'm not sure why you are convinced Vandoorne would do a worse job than Russell. When he replaced Alonso in Bahrain 2016 he did a really decent job.

Mercedes would probably have to pay a decent amount of money to Williams because it would take away their best chance of scoring points. Why would Mercedes do that if they are already paying someone to be the reserve driver?
It's not like Russell will gain much experience for '22 from driving the '20 car. And Mercedes are not desparate for point or wins anymore.


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