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Off the line he was indeed average at best. But his T1 and T2 were fantastic.

Helped ofcourse by Alonso hitting Vettel and having to slow down, causing Massa to brake as well.

So all in all, Alonso caused everything.

He sure sucks.

The main issue that hasn't been discussed hugely is how Horner has been totally undermined.

There were always questions before about who runs that team, but now Vettel's been thrown into the mix. He's been undermined by his 25 year old driver. Fellow team principals already dislike Horner because of his close connection with Bernie, but Vettel's actions have exposed Horner's weaknesses to the world and weakened Red Bull's position politically.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Horner already kissing vettel's ass acording to gpupdate.

looks like a fun forum to be at, was on another one but too many fights, was boring!, first post!

This forum is awesome and you will be fine, as long as you don't wish injury upon a driver

or post an icecream joke. Never post an icecream joke.

First and last >.<

I unconsciously knew that, which is why I made the injury-remark, of course.

Yeaa, he was too obvious.

A 25 year old driver who's won 3 WDC with Red Bull and still has to bow down to his teammate. Prost, Senna, and Schumacher had number one status with then their team by time they won three titles. None of the team principals have room to talk. Especially Ferrari, McLaren, and Mercedes.

What?

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

My point is that Horner is weak because of this type of mismanagement...

I don't ever recall a driver being so dominant compared to the wishes of his team principal. Remember Alonso/Hamilton at McLaren? Dennis told Alonso in no uncertain terms that he can shove his demands up his arse, while after the qualifying saga Hamilton was avoiding Dennis like the plague.

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Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

In regards to team orders being directed at Vettel. Todt or Domenicali would've told Webber to allow Vettel to pass so Vettel could gain maximum points over Alonso.

Not every team operates like Ferrari.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Let's be truthful. Ron Dennis was favoring Lewis that season. It cost them the WDC and $100 million fine.

Remember Monaco that year? I don't recall Lewis being favoured then.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

I agree - even when vettel was going at Webber, all that Horner said on the radio (or at least was broadcast) was that things were getting silly. Do we know if he said anything else to Vettel? If not that suggests Vettel was already dominating Horner prior to this.




I didn't think Vettel was that much faster than Webber earlier in the race - I don't recall Vettel even being within Webber's drs until after the final stops, if he was that much faster I would have expected him to be closer.

To an extent I think Webber did give up, he still could have tried to force Vettel wide when he finally did pass on the outside of T3. I imagine he probably had quite a lot to think about, given he'd been told Vettel wouldn't attack and to turn his engine down, then finding himself under attack. We also don't know why his engine was turned down, he might not be happy turning the engine back up without the engineers OK.



I think the orders were only to preserve the 1-2 finish for the team and reduce the strain on the engines, just in case they lose any engines later in the season. I think the order to hold position after the final stops would have been the same if the positions were reversed, I don't think Red Bull were favouring Webber over Vettel.

Except it wasn't at the final stops. There's a radio message from Rocky to Seb in the middle of the second stint (lap 24) telling him to maintain a gap of 3 seconds to Webber.

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

No, Alonso was angry because he expected the no1 status he got at Renault and went on to get at Ferrari.
Mclaren treated their drivers equally and this caused Fernando to throw his toys out of the pram.

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RIP Birmingham Wheels: here's some of the crash videos I recorded when it was there:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCIaKIE ... 5t9d5PvoHA

Twitter:

http://www.twitter.com/paulhadsley

Ah didn't know that, don't think that radio message was included in the BBC highlights. Can't understand what red bull were thinking in that case