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2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
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Author:  CatZip888 [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 11:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
That would've been even more tragic, it being out of his control.
Anyway, I remembered a few years back that there was a technique by Alonso to keep the car more planted on the racetrack in corners. He was able to slink down into the cockpit slightly more, his head moving downwards. Could Bianchi have done that, since he saw what was there? Racing drivers have quick reflexes and sinking down into the cockpit could have lessened the blow on his helmet
Author:  Coldtyre [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
*WARNING: Speculation and accident cause hypotheses in this post. Sensitive readers look away :p *

fede999 wrote:
Am I the only one thinking he could have had a mechanical failure? It is really weird how he just goes straight on, assumingly well past the braking point, at unabated speed without even trying to put the car into a spin.

Mechanical is always possible, but I don't see why you're talking about a braking point when it's all about acceleration from the last esse until Degner.

You only see the last 10meters on the camera angle, you don't know what he tried to do or not before that point. Otherwise, the car's trajectory is very logical of a car that goes to the right, after a spin to the left is overcorrected. Not saying that's what happened, but it's nothing unusual.

@
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tick-tock: 203kph seems really high, especially if the crash starts at a little over 210kph. But you know, now that I think about it, a stuck throttle could very well end up in that situation. Telemetry and testimonies of the marshalls (engine sound) could clear out this possibility.
Author:  Ayrton S. [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
fede999 wrote:
Am I the only one thinking he could have had a mechanical failure? It is really weird how he just goes straight on, assumingly well past the braking point, at unabated speed without even trying to put the car into a spin.


I'm just thinking that it could be a "Gordon Smiley" replica, I mean that Jules may have lost the rear because of a water river (which had led to Sutil crash 1 lap before), tried to correct by turning wheel on his right, but the car recovered, and started to spin in the right direction, which would explain the angle, quite "head-on" of the crash.


I saw too that there is now a debate about closed cockpits for F1.
By see how a WEC LMP1 driver is sit in his car, I would believe that even with a cockpit protection, the car would have been damaged in the same way, maybe worse if the driver is a bit higher in the car. In a "Bellof" way, I think.


Edit: Coldtyre said it in a better way! :p
Author:  acopip [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
So it looks like the coma is indeed artificial, thank you.
Well, I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the accident wasn't his own fault.
Especially from the 3 new teams since '10 we have had some freak incidents like Narain's crash with Rosberg in Abu Dhabi 2012 or the wheel coming off from a Virgin in 2010.
Also, Bianchi isn't quite the type of driver who crashes often, since his GP2 time he clearly drives more careful which of course doesn't mean he doesn't make any mistakes.
A stuck throttle or a broken steering would be a possibility.
Author:  Fox [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
acopip wrote:
A stuck throttle or a broken steering would be a possibility.


THAT would be a real Tragedy if its turned out to be true.
Author:  James B [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Somebody somewhere mentioned how it was basically like Button's crash at Interlagos in 2003: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xur1d7 ... 2003_sport
Author:  Ayrton S. [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 12:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
James B wrote:
Somebody somewhere mentioned how it was basically like Button's crash at Interlagos in 2003: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xur1d7 ... 2003_sport


Exactly my point.

In that same curve, same conditions (sudden water river), same race, MSC had his accident which would have led to a similar tragedy, because again of the marshall vehicle on the track.
Author:  James B [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
And the thing is, that's not really a driver error as such. It's not a mechanical failure but essentially the accident was inevitable from the moment the back end stepped out. There's no guarantee that even going a little bit slower for the double-waved yellows would have prevented it

This is why I don't agree with the whole individual responsibility thing. Even avoiding the issue of driver culture (because we know they all push the boundaries in these situations), the combination of increasingly wet conditions and a car in a dangerous position on the outside of a fast corner should be a cast-iron safety car deployment. Bianchi did nothing exceptional that warranted that crash - the onus lies on race control

And of course people in F1 will defend race control - they're defending the sport. It serves their interest to write it off as a freak accident or imply it's Bianchi's fault instead of tackling much larger problems which will only lead to more accidents in the future
Author:  kals [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
People will defend race control because of liability. If there's any suggestion of negligence then that could open a pretty big can of worms.
Author:  gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
kals wrote:
People will defend race control because of liability. If there's any suggestion of negligence then that could open a pretty big can of worms.


Which, I suspect, would start with Charlie and Bernie. I don't think Bernie fancies another Imola-style game of finger pointing.
Author:  kals [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
gkmotorsport wrote:
kals wrote:
People will defend race control because of liability. If there's any suggestion of negligence then that could open a pretty big can of worms.


Which, I suspect, would start with Charlie and Bernie. I don't think Bernie fancies another Imola-style game of finger pointing.


And I'm sure the Suzuka owners and operators don't want the same, following the way Daijiro Kato was handled back in 2003.
Author:  Coldtyre [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Handled, you mean the driver himself or the accident case?

On related news, the FIA (Jean Todt) asked Charlie Whiting to issue a report about the accident circumstances. They want it done before the next GP.
Author:  WilliamsF1 [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Ayrton S. wrote:
James B wrote:
Somebody somewhere mentioned how it was basically like Button's crash at Interlagos in 2003: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xur1d7 ... 2003_sport


Exactly my point.

In that same curve, same conditions (sudden water river), same race, MSC had his accident which would have led to a similar tragedy, because again of the marshall vehicle on the track.


There seem to be a number of these close calls. It's disappointing that someone must be badly injured in order for the conversion to take place, to at least ask - 'Can we do any better'? I mean from an administration point of view... Possibly even asking some fresh faces to the table for their opinions wouldn't be a bad idea.

If you have the same people, in those some positions, they will most likely make the same or similar decisions repeatedly.

Don't get me wrong, the bulk of their decisions are right, but not always. The British GP in 2013 was a wrong call in my books. The tyre explosions should've put an end to that race, but they continued it... Is the FIA really in control, or do they feel pressured by their commercial partners?
Author:  gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 2:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
WilliamsF1 wrote:
Don't get me wrong, the bulk of their decisions are right, but not always. The British GP in 2013 was a wrong call in my books. The tyre explosions should've put an end to that race, but they continued it... Is the FIA really in control, or do they feel pressured by their commercial partners?


As long as CVC remain the de facto owner of F1's commercial rights, the FIA will have commercial considerations too high up on their list of priorities.
Author:  James B [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Official statement from Marussia and the Bianchi family: http://www.marussiaf1team.com/news/1035/

The following statement is provided by the family of Jules Bianchi, in conjunction with the Mie General Medical Center, and is distributed on their behalf by the Marussia F1 Team.

“This is a very difficult time for our family, but the messages of support and affection for Jules from all over the world have been a source of great comfort to us. We would like to express our sincere appreciation.

Jules remains in the Intensive Care Unit of the Mie General Medical Center in Yokkaichi. He has suffered a diffuse axonal injury and is in a critical but stable condition. The medical professionals at the hospital are providing the very best treatment and care and we are grateful for everything they have done for Jules since his accident.

We are also grateful for the presence of Professor Gerard Saillant, President of the FIA Medical Commission, and Professor Alessandro Frati, Neurosurgeon of the University of Rome La Sapienza, who has travelled to Japan at the request of Scuderia Ferrari. They arrived at the hospital today and met with the medical personnel responsible for Jules’ treatment, in order to be fully informed of his clinical status so that they are able to advise the family. Professors Saillant and Frati acknowledge the excellent care being provided by the Mie General Medical Center and would like to thank their Japanese colleagues.

The hospital will continue to monitor and treat Jules and further medical updates will be provided when appropriate.”
Author:  kals [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
coldtyre wrote:
Handled, you mean the driver himself or the accident case?


The former really and it comes back to point around potential negligence, which could be as a result of training the marshals, a direction from race control (allowing the marshals to go and retrieve Sutil's car) and so on.
Author:  Andre [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Much like someone who gets sick and Googles symptoms of sickness and gets irrationally worried, I went and looked up "Diffuse Axonal Injury". Shouldn't have... :(

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffuse_axonal_injury
Author:  NVirkkula [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Had to google "Diffuse axonal injury (DAI)" and does not give a encouraging image. :(
Author:  Gaara [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Yeaa but reading up on a medical site, it depends on the severity. Which I guess in this case would be severe :(
Author:  gkmotorsport [ Tue Oct 07, 2014 3:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2014 FORMULA 1 JAPANESE GP - SUZUKA
Ok, glad I wasn't the only one to do that then. It doesn't sound encouraging at all, but then it's worth bearing in mind that the 10% survival rate is probably a half-decent chance for someone young and in peak physical fitness.
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