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2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=10032		 Page 6 of 141
Author:  RtN [ Mon Jan 16, 2017 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
highgroove wrote:
Wehrlein to Sauber is great news for both! It's at least a very minor step up from the Manor (IMO) and his pace and talent should allow him to regularly compete for points more consistently. Unless of course, 2017 is nothing like last year...


Sauber will spend the whole of this year planted at the bottom, assuming Manor does not return. They are using last year's engine and have put almost no effort into R&D as the team still cannot afford it.

Pascal's job will be to beat Ericsson and to look good in doing so. I hope that he manages to get a better drive before Lewis decides he's had enough because he could be forgotten otherwise.
Author:  Ian-S [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
kals wrote:
dicksplaash wrote:
Surely this is Coulthard's year?


Again, no... DC just can't catch a break can he?

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.ph ... o-williams


DC has a new career as a Taxi driver:
Author:  ptclaus98 [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Meh. Meh. Meh.
Author:  Coldtyre [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 9:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
I agree with the general sentiment, but I will play Devils Advocate here:

Rosberg has always been a "meh" driver including the early Mercedes years, yet he gave Lewis some fight and it ended up being occasionally pleasant to watch in the 2014-16 period.

"Valteri Bottas to Mercedes" sounds just as boring as "Nico Rosberg" used to be, but who knows we could be in for some fun.
Author:  gkmotorsport [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Jonathan Eddolls, who was race engineer for both Bottas and Rosberg at Williams, rates Bottas as a much more complete driver than Nico.

I wouldn't be surprised if Lewis is caught out once or twice early in the season. I also wouldn't be surprised if the toys come back out of the pram if that happens, as Valtteri is apparently just as immune to mind games as Kimi.
Author:  Ian-S [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
One can only hope.
Author:  mclaren2008 [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
What a joke that Massa is coming back, that's the biggest waste of a good seat in a while
Author:  Soul Reaver [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
He's doing very fine, after losing 07 on engine failures and 08 for failures, ferrari pit mistakes and several wrong strategy calls, never complaining publicly, then getting the right to win taken away several times while being with Alonso and still being a silent good employee. He's the perfect driver for a team in a lot of ways, just don't have the top speed. But that's mostly due to all that.
Author:  Mika Kimi [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Couldn't disagree more, but everyone has their opinion. :yes:
Author:  Soul Reaver [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Oh yeah, this forum loves to bash Massa.
Author:  Mika Kimi [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
I'm not doing that, am I? I just have a different opinion about Massa and think he's a tad overrated.

Yes, he has had some bad luck and lost victories because of it but he also had his share of luck and stayed in the championship because of it (France and Belgium 2008). He made mistakes that year (Australia, Malaysia, GB) and that's what cost him the title.
Author:  Ian-S [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Williams didn't have much of a choice and there's probably a good reason why they didn't plum for PDR, when your sponsor and main bankrolled both say the other car has to have someone over 25 with experience, you don't put an 18 year old rookie in it if you want to have a future.
Author:  Mika Kimi [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Yeah, their hands were tied and that's what made this a disappointing outcome IMO.
Author:  LucasWheldon [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
I think that Massa is still the perfect driver for Williams as both are mediocre
Author:  Speedworx [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:17 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Williams shoulda taken Pascal. Massa's head is in retirement mode.
Author:  Omega [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Soul Reaver wrote:
He's doing very fine, after losing 07 on engine failures and 08 for failures, ferrari pit mistakes and several wrong strategy calls, never complaining publicly, then getting the right to win taken away several times while being with Alonso and still being a silent good employee. He's the perfect driver for a team in a lot of ways, just don't have the top speed. But that's mostly due to all that.


Quote:
after losing 07 on engine failures and 08 for failures,


See that? That's 10 years ago. Stirling Moss lost some great chances to be World Champion, but I wouldn't put him in the Williams anymore.

When I saw Massa in some junior championship in 2001, he humiliated the rest of the field. The next year he got promoted to F1 with Sauber, and I knew he would be someone special.
After a few years he got his chance in a Ferrari. He impressed immediately. Got some chances to fight for the world championship, failed to do so but showed he had the speed. Then 2009 happened, and a bad Ferrari happened. Struggled to even get to the podium in the next 4 years. Change to Williams, some podiums again in 2014, but no bright results anymore, time to quit and do something else. Chapter closed you'd think, but then he comes back for another mediocre year where there is no fame to gain anymore.

There, the career of Massa summarized.
Author:  Philthy82 [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 11:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Scotty wrote:
Soul Reaver wrote:
Oh yeah, this forum loves to bash Massa.


Because he's mediocre

He has never done anything in F1 to excite or amaze anyone. He's run of the mill. He belongs in the Rosberg/Webber/Heidfeld category of being in the second tier (yes, Rosberg won a championship...on luck. He had luck where Webber and Massa didn't) of drivers behind the likes of Hamilton, Alonso, Schumacher, Vettel.


If Rosberg, Webber and Heidfeld are considered disappointing standards of driver for F1 seats then there's maybe 4 drivers who rise to your standard of who should be in F1.
Author:  Soul Reaver [ Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Scotty wrote:
Soul Reaver wrote:
Oh yeah, this forum loves to bash Massa.


Because he's mediocre

He has never done anything in F1 to excite or amaze anyone.


He certainly could have done way more, but Ferrari made sure that he would even think that he could fight Alonso. 2013 the first 2 races he was ahead, but they made Alonso pit first so he could have new tyres advantages. Besides that Hockenheim incident, that messed up his head, more than that spring.


Mika Kimi wrote:
I'm not doing that, am I? I just have a different opinion about Massa and think he's a tad overrated.

Yes, he has had some bad luck and lost victories because of it but he also had his share of luck and stayed in the championship because of it (France and Belgium 2008). He made mistakes that year (Australia, Malaysia, GB) and that's what cost him the title.


Nah, Ferrari just about every single race took the wrong strategy call. Like Monaco, he was going to win a brilliant race that started in the rain, but they decided to not put new tyres because they thought rain tyres turned into slicks would be better than new soft slicks tyres. Then Hungaroring engine blow up, and Singapure pit incident. Just to start.





As for Williams now, he may not be the fastest, but he certainly can be a good leader and help Ocon to get experience, as he has done already with Bottas, and he will certainly help the team with feedback. All that certainly weights in his favor.
Author:  mclaren2008 [ Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
Don't forget the Sepang self spin at half distance
Author:  ptclaus98 [ Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2017 F1 Random Discussion Thread
It's a waste that Massa is still in that seat. The only drivers that should still be in from that era are Alonso and Raikkonen, and I'm not even sure about Raikkonen. We have damn near a whole missing generation of top drivers that are racing elsewhere, thank God McLaren(or was it Honda?) had the good sense to put Vandoorne in. Without him its the Red Bull guys and a bunch of guys who were good not great in this generation. Which is admittedly not so unusual but with the old champions about to be put out to pasture, the two 4 time champions not even battling for the same thing, and the bland nature of everything F1 these days, it's sad to miss out on a potential story line of a Buemi, JEV, or Lucas di Grassi getting a proper second shot, or a Robin Frijns, Mitch Evans or Antonio Felix da Costa getting a good shot in a good car, and that's just a bunch of Formula E guys. At least those would be fresh storylines, and not something to not care about in a package that should be winning a race or two every once in a while.
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