TBK-Light.com

Ermmm...

"Won in other series, meaning "other than GP2"...

But I didn't ask my question properly first time round. You mentioned he'd won in every series he's entered, and my question was supposed to be "Has Palmer won in other series?".

From what I saw this year Palmer won twice, plus he won once in 2012. So that's three wins not two. Chilton also won a few races in GP2. Many other sub-par drivers have also won in GP2. It is all meaningless in the end. Those two are simply fillers (in my opinion). If teams want to take them and their money then that's their prerogative. But I don't need to be supportive of it, nor do I need to temper my opinion.

In my opinion, Rossi is more deserving of a top line seat. All Palmer is doing is depriving an actual talented driver of a proper chance to show his ability.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Ready for F1 or have potential for F1? I think we need to see what drivers can do over a few years. So this series will have people who maybe don't look there yet because they might get there.
Palmer is a sort of useful example in the sense that he really looked poor a few years ago but looks much better now. Ok, I don't think he is going to be a F1 star of the future (or even F1 driver) but he has improved and that's my point. We will see drivers from other junior series come to GP2 (and WSbR) where they have the chance to develop. A year is not enough for most, only the exceptional drivers will show it in that time.
Someone we see at 20 might make mistakes and we could question their seat but by 22 might be showing something special. It's a difficult thing to judge and the best teams get the right people by getting it right (just as in any other sport).

Oh I agree, but GP2 should be a finishing school. National F3 level is a sort of first major step, then perhaps GP3. GP2 should be when all the rough edges are refined and a driver shows that they are ready for Formula 1, after one or two seasons. There are exceptions, but mostly drivers either manage to show it within a year or two or just plodder on. If you haven't shown it by then, go and try another series because you might be better at it. Most of the guys in GP2 will have a very good career, just not in Formula 1. That's good in itself, but it's not really what GP2 is trying to sell itself as.

GP2 teams aren't stupid and they know when a driver has talent. But their hands are tied by budget. Russian Time employed two very good drivers who had very little budget, won the teams title and almost won the drivers title. That's how it should be...but it isn't.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

You'll get no arguments on how it should be. It's such a shame. I can't think of other sports like motorsport. If you're talented at anything else you'll likely find the help. Sure you might need luck, but everyone needs a little of that. Maybe one day eh.

Russian Time also has a shit ton of money behind them. They're running sn unsustainable business model for the love of the game. Its great, but how long will it last?

_________________

I'm kinda thinking it's more like F3000 in the late 90s tbh (97ish) - an essentially self-contained series with its own culture, its own fans, and its own established regular drivers (none of whom want to give up driving in GP2, it seems), which in part made it very difficult to graduate to F1 directly from. It doesn't quite have the quirks of F3000, like the open entry system or a separate calendar, but as was the case back then, the chances are most of these drivers will end up in some kind of closed-wheel racing

I think there's a similar standard of driver too. You may get one really good driver per year, which the F1 teams will pick up on, but broadly speaking, if you look at the 1997 F3000 grid and the 2013 GP2 grid, the vast majority of the drivers aren't particularly exciting - Montoya aside, none of those guys are capable of being F1 champions (apart from as a team boss, of course), and if you're going to graduate to F1 these days without enormous backing you have to at least show flashes of being capable of that

We may talk about certain drivers being a little better than others but this has been quite an average couple of years for GP2 (and junior series generally), so I don't think you can hold it against someone like Palmer, a race winner in the last two seasons, getting a good drive when there are very few young drivers out there who would do a considerably better job. He's not going to bomb completely and that's probably what DAMS want given that there's a lack of real star quality at the moment

I know you're not going to get the best 26, because that's always unfeasible. But back when the series began you had the likes of Rosberg and Hamilton racing in the category. Formula 1 teams, for all their failings, usually recognise the best young talents. McLaren never considered GP2 for Magnussen; they're hesitant about putting Vandoorne in there, while Red Bull doesn't want to put their youngsters in GP2. Ferrari prefers FR3.5 for Marciello.

The likelihood is that you'll always have similar groupings in GP2 in terms of relative ability, but the guys at the front are no longer the best young talents. That's the bigger problem. GP2 is selling itself as the best junior series for the next F1 drivers and getting the relevant TV coverage and status as an F1 support package - but you're only as good as the opposition. Yes, the guys in 2013 did well comparatively, but five of 2012's top six didn't race in GP2 in 2013 - so you've suddenly got a massive void. There was talent in 2013, don't get me wrong, but there was too little of it.

I also disagree that there's a lack of star quality - it's out there, spread across several categories, but it's stagnated to an extent in GP2. Mitch Evans did well but he was limited by being a rookie and having a donut for a team-mate, while Daniel Abt's team turned into idiots and when they didn't, he had some sort of hilariously bad luck. Frijns, da Costa... it's out there, but the situation is such that they can't progress properly.

One big issue is that since 2005, F1 has dropped Imola, Europe [Nurby/Valencia], France and Turkey, so that's four rounds gone for GP2.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

How many of these are capable of being successful in F1, though? And when I say successful, I mean winning races and potentially championships

Someone like Hamilton was clearly very special. Rosberg was at least going to be a competitive F1 driver, ditto Glock. But after that, it was getting silly how certain drivers were hanging around for too long - it all started with Di Grassi making two further attempts at the championship after finishing 2nd in 2007. It set a precedent: if you're experienced and competitive in GP2, and make yourself available, you'll get a good drive. That undid all the work GP2 did in separating itself from F3000 - it turned it into a team-centred championship instead of a driver-centred one

If GP2 wants to be taken seriously by F1, I'd suggest the best thing they could do is to put a limit on the amount of seasons a driver can race in the series for - the likes of Di Grassi, Filippi and Valsecchi racing in the series for as long as they please is basically taking the piss. At the moment, the teams are hiring the best drivers available for their own benefit, instead of for the benefit of the drivers themselves which is what it should be. That needs to be stopped. Yes, you might get a few grid-fillers but you will be able to see a good driver straight away, instead of waiting three or four years. It's slowing the whole process up

I think Frijns, da Costa, Evans and Abt could all be capable of winning in Formula 1.

But I totally agree with your main point. In the time between Leimer making his GP2 debut and winning the title, Sergio Perez finished runner-up in GP2, made his F1 debut, got podiums, moved to a top team and was sacked.

When you think about, GP2 has hurt several drivers - such as Frijns - who evidently have natural talent but don't have the money nor experience of other GP2 drivers. Rather than help him get to F1, the series has done the opposite.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Calendar published

11-12-13 March Yas Marina, UAE Test
19-20-21 March Sakhir, Bahrain Test

04-06 April Sakhir, Bahrain Race
09-11 May Barcelona, Spain Race
22-24 May Monte Carlo, Monaco Race
20-22 June Spielberg, Austria Race
04-06 July Silverstone, Great Britain Race
18-20 July Hockenheim, Germany Race
25-27 July Budapest, Hungary Race
22-24 August Spa-Francorchamps, Bel. Race
05-07 September Monza, Italy Race
10-12 October Sochi, Russia Race
21-23 November Yas Marina, UAE Race

So, in order to cut the costs, no races in Malaysia or Singapore. Two Middle East races, rest in Europe (which has two more rounds now, thanks to addition of Austria and Russia)

That's a very good calendar. GP2 in Austria should be amazing!

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

GP2 should be amazing everywhere, not just one circuit that hasn't been used for a tier 2 single seater formula in over 10 years

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Yeah, well, I love that circuit

Hopefully Austria/Russia will be cheaper than Malaysia/Singapore so that there'll be reduced costs & better drivers.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

I love the Osterreichring, whereas I've always despised the A1-Ring / Red Bull Ring. And I went there for the GP in 1998.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

It's a good track in it's own right and if it was built from scratch, a lot of people would praise it. It just has nowhere near as much character as the original. It's the same as Hockenheim, really.

_________________
Check out the Touring Car Driver Database! (if you'd be so kind)
Motorsport playlists on YouTube

Yep. While I do despise it, I'd rather have A1-Ring on the calendar than the soul-less tracks in Abu Dhabi, Bahrain, etc...

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Rene Binder at Arden...............

_________________
"Many people ask me why I always sign off Till We Meet Again, because goodbye is always so final. Goodbye Dan Wheldon." -Marty Reid

Arthur Pic will race for Campos.

It means the Pics become the first siblings to race in GP2. Arthur will also race for the team that replaces the team with whom Charles raced.

I know, don't all be amazed at once.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Ferrari confirms Marciello will be in GP2 this season.

They've yet to confirm a team although Racing Engineering would be a smart bet.

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

ART confirms a tie-up with McLaren and Honda, Vandoorne joins
http://www.gp2series.com/News-Room/News ... rand-Prix/

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011