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IndyCar '12 | China Cancelled, no replacement
https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7134		 Page 78 of 108
Author:  Fish88 [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
I think nowadays you just can't continue an event when something like that happens. MOTOGP was cancelled directly after the first lap when Marco's accident happened.
Author:  westracing01 [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
Before I say anything else, I just want to make clear that I whole heartedly agreed with the cancelling of the Vegas race after the crash and news of Dan's death. I would've been happier had they canceled it before that but lessons sometimes need to be learned the hardest of hard ways.

With that said... Had the Championship not been decided by the accident, I do believe they would've restarted the race.

The 500 is different. That race is a Chamipionship in it's own right and I really don't think that most fans would approve of cancelling it early even if there was a fatality during the race. This forum and it's members might agree that the race be stopped, but I don't necessarily think we as a community always represent the majority of race fans. It has been my experience when I've been at the track when a driver has been killed that the show usually continues. I think Indy would, and should, be restarted and finished. I just hope that none of us ever have to see the day that decision needs to be made.

Actually looking forward to Detroit... And I hate that damn track.
Author:  electrodevo [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
I remember when CART was severely criticized in the media and elsewhere for *not* cancelling the race in Michigan in 1998, after three spectators were killed by flying debris. (Example: This outrage piece in Sports Illustrated.)

When it comes to tragic accidents, you just can't win. But I think the circumstances here were a bit different than your standard fatal wreck. The whole *style* of the race was unusually dangerous. 15 cars were affected by one wreck. 3 of those cars were launched into the catchfence, a rather dangerous type of wreck for these type of cars (that Dan Weldon's death proved). There was no guarantee that this wouldn't happen again.

Think of it from a PR perspective. I can guarantee that the general media would have been *howling* at IndyCar if they restarted the race, even if nothing else happened. And if something else *did* happen after the restart? :8:
Author:  RtN [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
Jesus, that thing reads like it was written by a 14-year-old girl with PMS.

DAMN GOOD SEATS
Author:  Joe A [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 6:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
I believe that article got some mileage from some people here.
Author:  codename_47 [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
I don't know about you guys, but I watch motorsports hoping to see exciting races full of action and drama and maybe I cocoon myself inside a little bubble but I don't even think about the possibility of anyone getting hurt.

After that "bubble" is burst and the worst happens, I don't want to see a race any more.
The only experiences I've had with fatal crashes have been with Dan and Henry Surtees and both times after it was obvious the driver wouldn't make it (the announcement with Dan, Henry, sadly, it was just obvious) I shut off the broadcast and didn't want to watch any more.

In these more litigious times I don't think the organisers have much choice either, "Hey, we've just killed someone, lets go out in exactly the same circumstances and hope it doesn't happen again!"
That won't stand up well in court.

And looking at the outpouring of emotion after the announcement, no-one was in any fit state to get behind the wheel competitively either...

The saddest thing of all is after one of the best 500s in years, we're talking about owners backstabbing the series leader and then this, Indycar surely knows how to screw up when it has a good thing going, doesn't it? :(
Author:  pending [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 7:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
codename_47 wrote:
The saddest thing of all is after one of the best 500s in years, we're talking about owners backstabbing the series leader and then this, Indycar surely knows how to screw up when it has a good thing going, doesn't it? :(


Unfortunately I agree with you on this one.
Author:  De Cesaris fan [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 8:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
I remember we had a mass MSN chat going for that Vegas race. I read through it again recently, and I don't think one of us would have been happy to see that race restarted.

I don't understand why the teams are being so moany. I've been really pleased with the entire Indycar product this year. Dare I say that the cars are almost growing on me a little?
Author:  Juihi [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
Biggest threat to Indycar, is Indycar
Author:  codename_47 [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
Juihi wrote:
Biggest threat to Indycar, is Indycar


It's more the infighting.

The closer Indycar gets to success, the more the egos flare and each teamboss wants to take the credit for it and be in charge of it.

I think Indycar can be big again, but maybe not under this generation, you're probably going to have to wait until the Penske's/Ganassi's/Andrettis/etc retire, then the next generation can learn not to make the same mistakes and take this thing further.

And if Tony George can stop saber rattling behind the scenes, that'll be nice too....
Author:  Wil Vincent [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
RtN wrote:
Senna's death was not announced until something like 6pm that evening, and many of the drivers were not acutely aware of how bad the situation was at the time.

The one driver that was aware did not restart that race.


The race should have been canceled on Saturday Night if you were to interpret Italian Law properly...
Author:  Shane [ Fri Jun 01, 2012 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
When Penske backed off of the "Turbo Gate" issue that should of been a clear sign to Mikey Andretti to shut the fuck up and stop bitching.
Author:  Joe A [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
Well, Penske's a smarter person than Mike Andretti. That much is known.
Author:  Vegeman Bien [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
codename_47 wrote:
Juihi wrote:
Biggest threat to Indycar, is Indycar

It's more the infighting.

The closer Indycar gets to success, the more the egos flare and each teamboss wants to take the credit for it and be in charge of it.

I think Indycar can be big again, but maybe not under this generation, you're probably going to have to wait until the Penske's/Ganassi's/Andrettis/etc retire, then the next generation can learn not to make the same mistakes and take this thing further.
.


Well put. The egos that run Indycar are INMENSE. Without an even bigger figure in the lead, it will most likely lead to chaos.

If you look at F1 and NASCAR, the guy on top has leverage on any single team/owner. Even when some teams band together, the big Kahuna still has some cards on his deck. Not in Indycar.

I personally dont think the sport could survive either one of the top 3 teams leaving completely, which only serves to empower the aforementioned owners.
Author:  NVirkkula [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
DW41183 wrote:
I pose this question to you guys. You're obviously very passionate on your stance of Las Vegas. Rewind to the 2012 Indy 500. Mike Conway gets a little higher up on the fence, hits his head, dies. Do we cancel the Indianapolis 500, one which had been arguably the most competitive up to that point? This event has more history than Las Vegas for sure, but the hype before them both about what a great race and passing and big speeds we would see. Do we park the cars in the pits, fix the fence, have everyone sit around for the announcement both in the heat at the track and on tv watching and then send everyone home?



I'm not passionate about the Vegas race and canceling it. It was the only rational thing to do at the time. Why? Well, for example:

- It came out the drivers weren't really racing as much as they were running flat out in two or three wide lines, for ten straight laps. Conditions were good only for single pack of 34 cars running 230mph round and round. This could only end up in one way. It was not racing, it was a high speed traffic jam.
- Half of the field was wiped out, it wasn't the usual one or two cars tangling up and going on the outside wall. The physics of the crash showed that another crash could be just like that, because the cars were running on so close in the pack.
- Majority of the medical teams had left the track with injured drivers, they would have needed to wait them to return before starting the race again.
- Track was badly damaged, fencing was damaged, Safer barrier was damaged. Repairs might have taken hours, the race would have been continued off air.
- Championship was over.
- The driver who was running for the special prize had lost his life.
- Remaining drivers were already scared before the race, now they had lost their focus completely on racing after having time to wait and talk about it during the red flag. They saw 15 cars going off, unable to avoid the crash even with good reactions, heavy braking and determined steering manouvers. They knew it could happen for anyone of them again and they could not avoid it if it would happen right before them.


The reasons they should have continued:

- That's how it's been done in the past.
- TV ratings (that didn't excist in the first place) and money.


Comparing this to hypothetical situation where Conway would have lost his life at Indy this year is irrelevant.

- Only two cars were involved in that accident, which was quite common event that we've seen several times in the history of the track. Not a freaky mega-accident that cover half of the circuit.
-There would not have been need for a long red flag period like in Vegas, nearly 30 cars would have still been in the race, following pace car all this time, drivers still very much focused on racing.
-One ambulance would have left the circuit, not a half dozen and a chopper.
- Indy is very much a racing track, well suitable for IndyCars, no problem to continue racing. Vegas was a stock car oval.
- It's the Indianapolis Motospeedway, which has a traditions for over a century. Not a five years old oval in the middle of desert with no racing pedigree for IndyCars.
- TV ratings, the only event for IndyCars that really matters.
- It's the race that matters most for the drivers too. Most of the drivers would have fasten their seat belts, closed their visors and went for it again, without thinking that it could have happened to them also.


As cold as it sounds, a two car fatal crash at Indy is something that would make the drivers want to call it for a day. The pole sitter Scott Brayton died in a Carb day crash in 1996, everyone else started for the race, because it is the single most important race for them. Conditions were good for racing in 1996 at Indy and in 2012 for the big race. As a fellow driver, you could call those fatalities as bad luck or matter of circumstances.

How ever, The Vegas 2011 was not safe for racing. Same thing for 1975 Spanish GP. The track was not safe for continuing the event.
Author:  Gaara [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
No point continuing this argument, he got banned for being a previously banned member
Author:  Fish88 [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
LOL
Author:  Chris A [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 12:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
His point about the Conway incident was dumb as shit anyways. It was the last lap of the race.
Author:  Slam [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
He was talking about Conway's accident this year, half way through the 500.
Author:  Chris A [ Sat Jun 02, 2012 1:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: IndyCar '12 | Names Have Been Named
Oh, then I was derpy.
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