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Who is the better driver?
Dario Franchitti 20%  20%  [ 18 ]
Mark Plourde 80%  80%  [ 74 ]
Total votes: 92
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 1:37 pm 
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I know they've been on the decline in terms of popularity but it's still not as bad as the hole IndyCar found itself in at the end of the split.

Dan Belcher wrote:
RtN wrote:
We have a new car.

A very fundamentally flawed car that has way too much drag and not enough horsepower thanks to the specs they have to work with. No amount of aero competition can save this pile of shit I'm afraid. I have very low expectations for this car.


The lack of horsepower can be dealt with if they want to, they can turn the turbo boost up.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:08 pm 
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Best to sort out the chassis first then go about bringing horsepower up.

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We are exploring adding additional events to the 2012 schedule. We’re in the process of confirming a 16th event, while also considering adding a 17th race to the calendar.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:28 pm 
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Schedule's out:
http://www.indycar.com/news/show/55-izo ... -schedule/

Code:
2012 schedule

March 25: Streets of St. Petersburg (1.8-mile street course)
April 1: Barber Motorsports Park (2.3-mile road course)
April 15: Streets of Long Beach (1.968-mile street course)
April 29: Streets of Sao Paulo (2.536-mile street course)
May 27: Indianapolis Motor Speedway (2.5-mile oval)
June 3:  Raceway at Belle Isle Park (2.1-mile street course)
June 9:  Texas Motor Speedway* (1.5-mile oval)
June 23: Iowa Speedway (.875-mile oval)
July 8: Streets of Toronto (1.755-mile street course)
July 22: Edmonton City Centre Airport (1.973-mile airport course)
Aug. 5: Mid-Ohio Sports Car Course (2.258-mile road course)
Aug. 19: Streets of Qingdao, China (3.87-mile street course)
Aug. 26: Infineon Raceway (2.303-mile road course)
Sept. 2: Streets of Baltimore (2-mile street course)
Sept. 15: Auto Club Speedway (2-mile oval)
 
    *Denotes two full-points races              Schedule subject to change


I'd rather another oval or 2 (Milwaukee &/or New Hampshire) & I'd rather not have Belle-Isle or China on there (Road America, Laguna-Seca or Cleveland would be better options) but I guess it could be worse.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:45 pm 
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Rumours show that Itaipava beer is not sponsoring IndyCar and Brazilian GT Series anymore. It means they might not be sponsoring the SP Indy 300 next year. A bank from Rio de Janeiro called "BVA" is the new title sponsor for Brazilian GT series and I don't discard their interests on IndyCar, naming the brazilian race for "BVA SP Indy 300" too. That's why Randy Bernard is in Brazil at this exact moment negotiating new sponsors and a possible schedule change for the brazilian race, he wants to bring the race to early April. It's better indeed.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 2:50 pm 
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pending wrote:
It makes me so mad, that tracks like Laguna, Road America, Cleveland are nowhere to be seen, and I have little hope of them getting back soon. :(


Road America and Cleveland, yeah, I'd like to see that back... but what's with the nostalgia for Laguna? It has the corkscrew, sure, but the racing was usually crap due to it being a narrow track more built for bikes.

Rather see one of the Panoz road courses (Sebring, Road Atlanta, Mosport), Mont-Tremblant or Circuit Giles Villeneuve, the Glen... several of them aren't really practical desires, of course, due to economic reality or politics. But still.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 3:27 pm 
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Mosport will never happen and that's a damn shame.

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So I guess you guys are pretty stoked about the tumors, then


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 4:44 pm 
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electrodevo wrote:
Road America and Cleveland, yeah, I'd like to see that back... but what's with the nostalgia for Laguna? It has the corkscrew, sure, but the racing was usually crap due to it being a narrow track more built for bikes.

Rather see one of the Panoz road courses (Sebring, Road Atlanta, Mosport), Mont-Tremblant or Circuit Giles Villeneuve, the Glen... several of them aren't really practical desires, of course, due to economic reality or politics. But still.


I dunno why, but Laguna is something special I love that track.I know races have mostly been crap, but hell, every race there would be better that Infineon, for example.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:09 pm 
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Ian-S wrote:
Nascar is not as dominant as you believe they are either, when their TV contracts come up for renegotiation, things might be very different.


Even though they had a decline. They still remain the second most watched sport in the United States. Plus, their ratings have gone up this year.

Sprint Cup series averages 6,451,000 viewers per race. Nationwide Series averages 2,236,000 viewers per race. Camping World Truck Series averages 838,000 viewers per race. IndyCar averages 402,000 viewers per race. Grand Am averages 305,000 viewers per race.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:22 pm 
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Every single one of those figures you quote is a guess, nothing more, iirc, Indycar is also shown on a channel only a small percentage of America can get, so the figures are again slued because of that.

You only have to look at the empty grandstands to see Nascar isn't as healthy as it's claimed, it could just as easily be that 4,000,000 real people watch a Sprint Cup race and 8,000,000 watch an Indycar race, but because the majority of the Nielsen homes that make up the system don't watch the Indycars, the Nielsen figures say 600k watched it.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:48 pm 
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I'm just sick of all these crappy street courses.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 5:57 pm 
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Ian-S wrote:
Every single one of those figures you quote is a guess, nothing more, iirc, Indycar is also shown on a channel only a small percentage of America can get, so the figures are again slued because of that.

You only have to look at the empty grandstands to see Nascar isn't as healthy as it's claimed, it could just as easily be that 4,000,000 real people watch a Sprint Cup race and 8,000,000 watch an Indycar race, but because the majority of the Nielsen homes that make up the system don't watch the Indycars, the Nielsen figures say 600k watched it.


Not a guess...
Nascar Cup Series: http://racinghellonwheels.blogspot.com/ ... jumps.html
Nascar Nationwide Series: http://www.sportsmediawatch.com/2011/06 ... de-series/
Nascar Truck Series: http://nascar.speedtv.com/article/speed ... d-history/
IndyCar: http://www.motorsport.com/indycar/news/ ... 011-11-30/
Grand-Am: http://www.racecar.com/Motorsport/News/ ... /45699.htm

The Nascar Truck Series is shown on Speed. It has double the viewers vs. Indycar. Trying to point the blame on Neilsen is lame ass excuse.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 6:17 pm 
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Just noticed the Chinese street circuit is nearly 4 miles long, so I'll be interested to see the layout...


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:11 pm 
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the 2 events they are adding better both be ovals. and whats with the texas race? the article said its one 228 lap event while the other list copy and pasted here said it's 2 full points paying events.

also does anyone have a list of confirmed and rumored seats filled with teams? thanks.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 7:26 pm 
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RtN wrote:
Okay, I'm just gonna ramble on here 'cause I'm at a loss as to what everyone's expectations are of the IndyCar Series. If I make sense, great, if I don't, feel free to ignore.

First of all, there's no argument over the damage that Tony George did in 1995. The story's been told again and again, and we all know the consequences of what happened. But he's gone. His prize stooge is now also gone. He's been replaced by someone in Randy Bernard who has a plan for where he wants IndyCar to be but also realises that it will take a while to get there, especially with the radically changed reality that he faces compared to 1995.

It hasn't helped that his first major play to try and rejuvinate IndyCar backfired catastrophically. That's the second thing. Vegas was a disaster and it has almost certainly set IndyCar back a bit. The reason Vegas drew a 1.8 in the Nielsens is because 5 million people watched the final 30 minutes. So there are a lot of people who may have been interested in a strong open-wheel alternative to NASCAR who would have been driven away again by what they saw. Progress in growing the series will be slower in coming as a result.

But, that aside, there are steps in the right direction. We have a new car. Yes, there were major teething troubles when they first tested it but the last pre-Christmas test gave some indication that those problems were being dealt with. We have an engine war for the first time in years. From 2013 there will also be an aero war which is as close as we will get to a full chassis war for a long time. It hasn't even raced yet and there are people criticising it? Come on. Give it a chance.

And yes, the schedule looks very weak compared to the glory days. But IndyCar simply cannot afford to run at all these old circuits for the sake of nostalgia. They have to be financially viable. The series is no longer being financed by Tony George's chequebook, it has to be self-sustaining. It's not like F1 where Bernie is charging exorbitent fees for the purposes of sucking promoters dry; IndyCar is trying to run a business. And in some cases the people that used to act as promoters just don't want to know. Ultimately IndyCar can only run at the circuits that can afford it right now. If the economy picks up, and if IndyCar picks up, then they can surely entertain the idea of running again at the old circuits.

And I know a lot of people scoff at the Chinese race, that it mimics so well what CART and the CCWS did in their dying years, but I guarantee that if they can get Ho-Pin Tung or some other Chinese driver in a half-decent ride then IndyCar will sell in China like hot cakes. It might actually attract some real investment besides IZOD. This has actually been one of Bernie's biggest mistakes of recent times; he wants a Russian driver for the Russian GP and an American driver for the American GPs but he has not made any real attempt to secure a Chinese driver for the Chinese GP. If Randy can do this he may crack China.

IndyCar right now is fighting against the economy and it's fighting against NASCAR. Two battles it did not have in 1995 and they are difficult battles. Considering the position the series is in it's a wonder how its still alive. I'd love for the series to race at Michigan, to race at Milwaukee, Richmond, Cleveland, Laguna Seca and all those good and great tracks which it isn't right now, and for there to be multiple chassis manufacturers really committed to trying to beat each other. But it's not possible right now. I believe it will be possible in the future, but for the meantime all anyone can have is patience and belief.





Quoted for another page, since this is very good post about IndyCar's current situation. And I have to agree with the situation against NASCAR and economy. Also it really is a miracle that the series is still alive, after what Tony George did. Looking back to all of it, it's like he was around just as long as he got the CART/CCWS killed. Like he was just showing off that he was better than the CART-wing of American Open-Wheel Racing. What he (who's name shall not be ever mentioned again in this topic) left to Randy Barnard was a series that was on a life support that he politely pulled out while taking a step aside.

This past season for IndyCar was really the first comeback year, a step towards the old days of glory, with lots of new promises hanging in the air (full field every time, new car coming up, drama and excitement more than before). I believe I know what Randy was planning with the Vegas event. A big finale that will put all the bad blood and stained past behind. A Grand Race with a Grand Price, a Vegas style farewell with fireworks. But that was not ment to be. The destiny came in and the band stopped playing.

I think that the majority felt that what I felt back in that day - for a brief moment before the green at Vegas I believed that THE IndyCar was back. And just in a blink of an eye the series with all the hopes and the build up went back to the turmoil towards the very perdition.

So what happened was that Randy with his team worked with the patient, revived the vitality and made him walk again. Now the patient felt down, but it's not the end of the world. Not yet. Randy has not given up, which is a good sign. He pulled out a miracle by saving the series in the first place, now people expect him to do it again and making the patient healthier than it was just few years ago? Give him a break. All we need is time and patience. A bad calendar doesn't automatically mean that the patient is going to die. One step at a time first, the patient can start running again when walking is strong enough.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 9:01 pm 
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Ferrari wrote:
The Nascar Truck Series is shown on Speed. It has double the viewers vs. Indycar. Trying to point the blame on Neilsen is lame ass excuse.


I'll say it again, all the figures are guesses, based on a formula by Neilsen which is so outdated, even the TV networks are not taking them seriously now, if you believe they're accurate then I'm not going to argue with you, other than to let the facts speak for themselves:

There are approx. 114,500,000 TV homes in the USA, of those, 25,000 have a Neilsen box, if 1091 of those Neilsen homes watch a Sprint Cup race, Neilsen take that figure, times it by 4580, and that's how they get the viewership figure of 4,996,780 viewers.

It is literally that simple, the system crap for getting real viewership figures, Neilsen tried to muscle in on Ireland's TV system a few years ago, and eventually they were told to get lost because the figures were so inaccurate.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:18 pm 
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Simply put, Neilsen doesn't take in consideration the many variables that can effect viewership. You can't just assume everyone else is watching a certain television program simply because a small fraction are.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 22, 2011 11:48 pm 
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RtN wrote:
The lack of horsepower can be dealt with if they want to, they can turn the turbo boost up.

Except this is something it really sounds like they refuse to do. They keep chirping the 600hp number on ovals and 750hp on the road and streets as the max they want to go with. I understand they don't want to raise costs by pushing the engines too hard, but damn. You're supposed to be a top level racing series. Fucking make your cars have some balls so they are extremely hard to drive on the limit! Here's a nice example of what I mean. This lap is scary. It's impressive, but it also makes for good racing because it's so hard to drive hard without making mistakes, and those mistakes lead to back and forth battles and overtaking.



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 1:08 am 
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iks wrote:
They should go to Zolder and Assen if Texas and Baltimore don't work out. :p


At least try Rockingham and Eurospeedway first!
And hey presto, two more ovals!


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:17 am 
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They should reopen Nazareth and race there


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 23, 2011 5:32 am 
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Reopening Nazareth would apparently be much easier said than done.

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