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| Indycar 2011 @ Las Vegas https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7133 |
Page 66 of 74 |
| Author: | De Cesaris fan [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:56 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
MaTT wrote: In other news... ... just ordered this as an 800mm x 535mm canvas. £80 from Sutton's website, if you are interested...  I was just thinking the other day that I need some photos to decorate my new place. Perfect! 
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| Author: | Neil [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 7:59 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95553 |
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| Author: | ellis [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
I'm wearing a make-shift black armband to work this weekend. Some will probably find it silly, but I don't care, it helps me feel a little better.  Also, my arm is really fucking skinny. |
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| Author: | Xen [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 8:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
Indeed I'm sure plexiglas is the way to go. Spectators can still watch the race through it, and I am sure it can be made strong enough not to have a car passing through it. Of course the solid poles behind the plexiglas plates would hold everything in place, making this very strong. and sorry but there is no chance a car could pass through it. Tests should be conducted in this direction. It is of course cheaper to have closed cockpit, but imagine in the case of a fire or emergency that the cockpit cannot be opened. And there you go with another drama. So no, no closed cockpits. Racing cars is ok because there is always 2 ways (minimum) to leave the car, but on a single seater, only 1 way ! If its closed, then there is no other way out. And again this is just my 2 cents, but you wanna get rid of the catch fences ? Go plastic ! |
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| Author: | pending [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 9:14 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
The main problem about the plexiglass idea would be the light reflecting. I think it'll be an issue during daytime and undriveable under the lights. I agree there must be something seriously changed about that catchfence, but first of all they should minimize the chance of a car ending up there. |
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| Author: | electrodevo [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:20 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
NVirkkula wrote: The debate between steel fence and plexiglass is pretty much the same that was with Ice Hockey back in the day. "The reflections would blind people, glass is expensive, glass would shatter and be dangerous, glass wouldn't hold the impact, glass would be too heavy and glass fall on people." There are types of light weight and yet very strong ballistic glass that could be used in high risk areas at least. It's a possibility, but I'm more worried about the metal poles (which all hockey systems still have for the most part). I'm also worried about give, which I've actually read is a problem with the "fused" glass type systems without the metal spacers. Even in hockey, having "give" -- energy displacement -- is of critical importance to prevent, concussions and other injuries on checks. Also in hockey we've seen more than one instance where the plexiglass has shattered, so you would still need the catch fence as backup in case that happens. Plexiglass shatters in sharp pieces, and I think that's a safety issue right there. You'd need thick enough plexiglass to handle a 200mph flying car; this may make a retrofit a lot tougher, the weight might too much to bolt it on to existing catch fences and a complete rewire is a tougher sell. Even stronger material than plexiglass does exist -- transparent armor (clear aluminum alloys) -- but it's barely out of the lab, and I have no idea how suitable / expensive it is. Not that there may be ways to utilize it safely, but there are a number of concerns that don't make it an instant obvious solution. |
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| Author: | RtN [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/95554 Dan will be put to rest on Saturday. ------------------------------------- There will also be an open memorial service at Emberton Church on Sunday 6th November, as per today's Autosport. |
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| Author: | Ian-S [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:27 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
Xen wrote: and I am sure it can be made strong enough not to have a car passing through it. like all of us I'm no expert but I'm guessing that to make this stuff strong enough to withstand the impact of a car (versus a much, much lighter hockey puk), would mean it has to be pretty thick - thus intruding another issue of the Plexiglas itself not absorbing or distributing the energy, taking us back to the age old issue of stuff being too strong. |
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| Author: | EauRougeF1 [ Thu Oct 20, 2011 10:36 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
If anybody is interested I have the pdf version of this weeks Autosport Magazine, which contains a full tribute to Dan. PM me if you are interested to have it as a collectors item. |
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| Author: | cambridge [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:39 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
Ian-S wrote: Xen wrote: and I am sure it can be made strong enough not to have a car passing through it. like all of us I'm no expert but I'm guessing that to make this stuff strong enough to withstand the impact of a car (versus a much, much lighter hockey puk), would mean it has to be pretty thick - thus intruding another issue of the Plexiglas itself not absorbing or distributing the energy, taking us back to the age old issue of stuff being too strong. and dont forget how much it would weight a panel that thick, considering it's also put at an angle it would require a very big structure to support it's weight. |
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| Author: | Ian-S [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
yeah, same for raising the walls, with them facing inwards, the weight of a tall wall could pull it over without something behind it supporting the weight. I don't envy the guys tasked with finding a solution to this. |
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| Author: | NVirkkula [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 5:18 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
I think most of here starts to think about the plexiglass problem in a wrong way. Don't look at the glass they use in hockey rink, it is definitely not usable in racing conditions. Take your ISO-standards and seek another material that is I) transparent II) strong enough to handle massive pressure III) light enough to be bolt in other than straight vertical position IV) Not reflecting the light on the track area V) Not shattering. The problems I and II are the ones that needs to be solved with primary material, other problems can be solved with a surface finishing techniques. The answer is excisting already, there just hasn't been a need to have it in use. If you cannot find answer to the first two problems that are linked together. Use current catch fencing and add a glass that can handle most of the impact. |
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| Author: | Stoegi [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:33 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
Imo they should concentrate on making the racing less crazy, thus limiting the chance of cars flying into the catchfence, instead of replacing the fence. I mean how many fatalities did we have that were caused by cars flying into fences in Indycar racing ? 2? (Krosnoff also smacked the fence but I think his car was split in half by a light pole and that's what killed him). I'm pretty sure catch fences will stay. It's just an absolute freak circumstance to have someone killed like Wheldon, that's just something you can never be prepared for if you ask me. |
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| Author: | Ferrari [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:48 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
List on injuries and and fatalities in AOW from 1996-2011..... http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/s ... clnk&gl=us |
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| Author: | Cheeveer [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 9:50 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
ShaneC wrote: Imo they should concentrate on making the racing less crazy, thus limiting the chance of cars flying into the catchfence, instead of replacing the fence. I mean how many fatalities did we have that were caused by cars flying into fences in Indycar racing ? 2? (Krosnoff also smacked the fence but I think his car was split in half by a light pole and that's what killed him). I'm pretty sure catch fences will stay. It's just an absolute freak circumstance to have someone killed like Wheldon, that's just something you can never be prepared for if you ask me. 3, though Renna was in testing and not an instance of too many cars on too little real estate. However, the plexiglass solution sounds about as intelligent as "but a roof on the track like house and there you go we have a race". It will never work. Taking Indycars off 1,5-milers built for stock cars is the best solution. Cars going into the catch fence were never much of an issue before the IRL! I can't remember a single accident in CART when that was the case. Get rid of pack racing is the main priority if I were in charge. I'm thankful that Robin Miller has the same idea, he seems to have some influence. Salt Walther in '73. Tom Sneva in '75. I can't remember anyone else with that fate. |
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| Author: | MaTT [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 11:28 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
Tribute show is on Youtube for the moment. |
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| Author: | topcat_inc [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:07 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
Nice tribute, especially the first part which covers the events of that day. |
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| Author: | Slam [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
By the way, (sorry to go back to the fences topic), I read on Autosport forum someone saying that the posts holding the fences up at Vegas were in front of the fence, not behind it. I don't know if this is true or not, but if true, it doesn't really make sense to me. |
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| Author: | electrodevo [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:51 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
dicksplash wrote: Salt Walther in '73. Tom Sneva in '75. I can't remember anyone else with that fate. Krosnoff, Zampedri, and Stan Fox as well. But yeah, the pack racing has made the catch-fence type crash that much more likely. (Other than Krosnoff, I don't know of any fly-into-the-catch-fence crash outside of Indy during the CART years.) |
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| Author: | NVirkkula [ Fri Oct 21, 2011 2:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Indycar @ Vegas |
Slam wrote: By the way, (sorry to go back to the fences topic), I read on Autosport forum someone saying that the posts holding the fences up at Vegas were in front of the fence, not behind it. I don't know if this is true or not, but if true, it doesn't really make sense to me. I noticed the same thing during the red flag. They were for stock car racing, so Indycar organization overlooked their own safety requirements with fencing. This type of fencing damaged Davey Hamilton's feet and injured Kenny Bräck seriously at Texas in the way back. The main reason for Bräck's accidents violency was the fact that car pushed the fencing back and made a head-on impact with the pole. Same probably happened to Dan Wheldon here. |
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