Elevated ground of course...
Here is what I thaught of:
The angle of the red wall parts is designed not to get into the gap between cockpit front and roll bar.
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| 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6141 |
Page 98 of 100 |
| Author: | Schumifan [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
with roofs over them for when it rains |
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| Author: | ellis [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:34 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
Beezle wrote: Dumb question: Why do we need a fence anyway on places like vegas (apart from the stands)? What would happen without the fence and the adboards? A car would fly over the wall and out into the flat empty desert. Alsmost like a gravel trap. Besides the drop from it's flight it would'nt even suffer a impact.... Ever stood at the top of a banking? I did at Daytona. That shit is fucking high. |
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| Author: | Neil [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
Beezle wrote: Dumb question: Why do we need a fence anyway on places like vegas (apart from the stands)? What would happen without the fence and the adboards? A car would fly over the wall and out into the flat empty desert. Alsmost like a gravel trap. Besides the drop from it's flight it would'nt even suffer a impact.... Not sure if serious... |
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| Author: | Tommy Vercetti [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
There's billboards, parking lots... |
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| Author: | Paul [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 4:18 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
lol, "flat empty desert" |
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| Author: | StanV [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
why don't they extend the banking itself so the track turns into some kind of huge bubble |
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| Author: | electrodevo [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:26 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
Beezle wrote: Dumb question: Why do we need a fence anyway on places like vegas (apart from the stands)? What would happen without the fence and the adboards? A car would fly over the wall and out into the flat empty desert. Alsmost like a gravel trap. Besides the drop from it's flight it would'nt even suffer a impact.... |
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| Author: | Woodski [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:28 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
nea wrote: Beezle wrote: Dumb question: Why do we need a fence anyway on places like vegas (apart from the stands)? What would happen without the fence and the adboards? A car would fly over the wall and out into the flat empty desert. Alsmost like a gravel trap. Besides the drop from it's flight it would'nt even suffer a impact.... Not sure if serious... It's Beezle, he's serious. |
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| Author: | Beezle [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:53 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
Elevated ground of course... Here is what I thaught of: The angle of the red wall parts is designed not to get into the gap between cockpit front and roll bar. |
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| Author: | Schumifan [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:02 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
Right... so what about space and cost? |
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| Author: | Tristar 7AT [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:09 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
you know a better plan would to make cars that dont go flying everytime someone presses the push to pass button. |
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| Author: | Mattzel89 [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 7:19 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
Brendan24 wrote: It's too bad that a Lexan like material, except stonger doesn't exist. If catchfencing could be replaced with a clear smooth surface material you'd have better safety and visibility. Zandvoort has those on the frontstraight, although I'm not sure whether it's just glass or something like that  but of course the poles are still there... |
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| Author: | Paul [ Mon Dec 12, 2011 8:15 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
There's an ethnic joke in there somewhere. |
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| Author: | JamesonJack [ Tue Dec 13, 2011 10:16 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
Hi Guys, Since that tragic day Ive been thinking about how we can prevent an accident like the one that killed Dan Wheldon. I worked for a good few years as a motorsport journalist and knew Dan pretty well having interviewed him quite a few times. I spoke with him just before his amazing win at Indianapolis this year and after being the journo responsible for announcing that Mario Was considering coming out of retirement to race in Vegas, I called Dan. He said he would love to do it but wasn't sure about the safety of the place. We chatted about how Dario had already mentioned that he was concerned having run Cup cars at the venue that an Indycar racing around the track at 230mph in packs was very dangerous. I spoke with many individuals about the race but everyone (bar the drivers) seemed to be just focusing on the BIG PRIZE and not the safety aspects of the $5m purse on offer. I spoke to an old contact of mine at Lola who used to supply the chassis to the IndyCar series back in the day and he suggested that a very promising idea would be to introduce some NASCAR-style panels to the top of the side pod, on the side of the cockpit (in front of the wing mirrors) and positioned on the floor tray immediately under the drivers seat (ie before the venturi's/skirts at the back of the car). He told me that placing them at certain angles and at certain positions on the car would result in there being only a 5-10% chance of the car getting airborne - considerably less than current probability rates... He said that a similar design he had explored would keep the car from getting airborne at high speeds and that it is something he struggled to get through IndyCar officials who were dealing with the last supplier - especially as the new design was already decided upon months before it was officially announced... Dan's passing should be used as a definitive opportunity to research more thoroughly how to prevent similar accidents occurring in the future. Perhaps not racing with 34 cars on a 1.5m track is a start... My own thoughts on an alternative for the fencing is to get rid of the thing in the first place and to raise the outer ground level to the same as the height of the track where it meets the barrier. Placing an asphalt area which is slightly banked upwards further still (to reduce the speed of a sliding car even more) will prevent roll hoops from digging into the ground, and would be safer in general as the cars would just slide around the surface. I'm curious to hear other peoples thoughts... |
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| Author: | NVirkkula [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
Welcome to forum, JamesonJack! Interesting to hear about the Lola engineers view on openwheel oval racing, maybe the aero-panels on the sidepods would have worked like the Hanford Device, maybe helped to get rid of close pack racing. I hope IndyCar will take a look on this, they did have some fins after Kenny Bräck's accident, but soon they were ditched. Anything to prevent airborne accident is a welcome idea, if you ask me. Your idea about how oval fencing should be replaced sounds interesting, but might be too "spectator-unfriendly" and expensive to do. But I have to say that fencing is the only thing that hasn't changed much in racing during the last 50 years. And it should, it seems to be out-dated in all terms. I would like to hear more about Wheldon and the Vegas weekend from you. |
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| Author: | De Cesaris fan [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:38 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
A lot of ovals only have grandstands from Turn 4 to Turn 1, so it's something that could be implemented around the rest of the circuit. It doesn't have to be a huge run off, so it might not be too expensive. Just enough for the car to land and hit some tyres I suppose. I had a similar thought when I said in my last post that Wheldon would have been better off clearing the fence and not hitting anything. I do think Beezle was trying to explain something along the same lines. The main problem I can think of is that you'd still need catchfencing around the spectator areas, and it could leave an exposed area where the run off ends, and where the fencing and grandstands start. And going over a wall upside down can leave your head exposed to an impact, much like Campos at Magny Cours. And yes, welcome! |
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| Author: | StanV [ Wed Dec 14, 2011 7:49 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
I still think the extended 'run off' idea has way too much flaws, especially concerning the actual speed of the cars. If cars get airborne like Wheldon's (full throttle and full speed) and you would be using the idea of implementing some sort of run off area, it would need to be rather huge because my gut feeling says the radius of flying would be rather big. (I'm no engineer by any means, so prove me wrong if I am). Oh and by the way, always nice to have good contributing new members! |
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| Author: | Ospi [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 7:26 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
I think a lot of the issues involve the design of the fence in which it pretty much "grabs" the cars on impact and rips them to shreds. The high strength perspex idea as used at Zandvoort is a possible solution I reckon as, overcoming its impact resistance would at least not rip the cars to a million pieces and certainly prevent the Brack/Briscoe affair in that regard, not to mention the obvious spectator view advantages. No doubt they would have looked into it though, I guess the problem with perspex is if it does break on impact then you are kinda stuffed. |
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| Author: | sennadesillva [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:21 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
the extended run off idea might seem good at first but we'll see another "freak" accident that will come along and show that all that money to add that was still the wrong decision.. in all these airborne crashes (wheldon, brack, conway and so on) these cars hit fence before they reached their full height and distance. im sure most of here have seen and remember quite well Takashi Yokoyama's crash. look how far and high that car flew before hitting the signage over head. had his car been in the direction of the stands it would have cleared the fence and results disastrous. letting one of these cars fly freely may be just as dangerous as being launched into fencing due to the resulting landing impact and possible further roll's. unfortunately there is never a situation in which a driver is completely immune to the risk of death in this sport. i would be the last one to ever minimize dans passing in any way, shape or form but this possibility comes with the sport. we've seen plenty of freak accidents (most recently kanaan at baltimore) with much better out comes and no one is up in arms about those track designs yet had kanaan been killed everyone would analyze the shit out of it as well. |
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| Author: | JamesonJack [ Thu Dec 15, 2011 10:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: 2011 IndyCar Season Discussion |
Hi folks and many thanks for the warm welcomes! I have to say the Lola engineer is definitely on to something and my hope is that the idea is given further time to develop as it seems that it is the ONLY solution to stopping the cars getting airborne. With the run offs outside the turns I do think that in todays technological world of simulations, we should be able to computer generate the effects of a car going over the wall and into a gradually steeper-banked outer run off area layered with high friction asphalt. I think they would be a far safer option but yes you are right that generally the circuits are enclosed with spectator seating from T4 through to T1. So, can we not have some sort of NHL-style transparent screen which is strong enough to absorb the impact from crashing carbon-fibre cars impacting it at 200mph? I think that by over lapping the screens from left to right (thereby following the direction of the racing line) by about 10 metres and by having the poles supporting them protected from being hit by the flying cars, we should be able to prevent similar accidents where the pole does the damage. I will upload a diagram of what I mean but hope the above description is good enough though I doubt it! Now for my chat with Dan... When I last spoke to him he was full of the joys of spring as his favorite race was coming up and he felt absolutely sure he was going to win the race. "How do you know that?" I asked, "You've only been with the team a few weeks and a little out of practice..." His response was succinct: "I know I don't know them as well as other times I have raced here but THEY know who I am and how I run at Indy - and that's what matters mate!" I couldn't disagree. We chatted about a few other things and then I asked if he was hopeful the run at the 500 would lead to a full time ride for the remainder of the season: "You know, you can never tell in this game what happens tomorrow. A few years ago, I was the champion then for a few various reasons beyond my control, I found myself watching the races from home! Its been hard sitting on the sidelines and not competing with my friends and rivals so I am hopeful that we can get a good result in the 500 and get a package together for the rest of the season but in the current climate, it will be tough. Saying that, this end of season run at Vegas could be massive so its an interesting possibility. The purse on offer is certainly tempting!" I mentioned to him that Mario Andretti had told me he was tempted to return for the one off race: "Ha!" Dan chuckled, "that doesn't surprise me at all. He is a great champion and loves racing. But for me, getting a ride for Vegas will be difficult but you can rest assured mate I will be doing all I can to get one." We chatted about a few other things and planned to meet up sometime in 2012 to go karting if I was able to get to the USA and near St Petersburg. He was a lovely, lovely bloke and its a crying shame he was never seen in an F1 car. However, European racing's loss was America's gain and they loved him for who he was both in and out of the cockpit. I'll always remember the best interview we did which was for Karting magazine a few years ago. I was commissioned to write a piece on how Dan and Darren Manning (driving for Chip Ganassi at the time) became professional racing drivers and how important karting had been for them as children. Dan was so animated, reliving every little detail and imploring young kids to ensure that above all else, they enjoy themselves and not take it too seriously - at the beginning! "If the realisation kicks in that you ARE good at it, THEN you can kick some serious ass!" he proclaimed. Obviously, that quote was omitted from the article along with many others! Dan's passing was tragic and for me it was the first time a driver I knew had been killed and man was it tough. I spent over an hour chatting to the respected F1 journo Nigel Roebuck at the Autosport Int Show last January and over a few cups of coffee we spoke of many things and after discussing his relationship with Gilles Villeneuve, Nigel said that while deaths in the sport are less frequent today, I would get to know a driver well who would get killed on the track one day and that I would never see the sport in quite the same light as before. Never, for a moment, did I think it would be Dan though. |
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