2017 Formula 2 Discussion

kals · PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 11:39 pm

It wasn't a reactionary block. Rowland clearly moved first and kept moving.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:28 am

I'd say it was borderline but he definitely increased the speed of it when he saw the car behind cutting to the inside.

Cases like that when the car behind ends up off the road due to the car in front swerving i will always blame the car in front for blocking, i just don't like it and it usually ends up in aircraft accidents.
Even if Rowland had lost the place there, Markelov was going so tight into the corner Rowland could probably repass using a wide line into turn 1 to get him on the outside with greater momentum on the exit of the corner
These drivers don't think long term though, it's all panic stations when the car behind gets a run.

For all the shit Max Verstappen gets in F1, Rowland should be copping the same now imo.

kals · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:41 am

Was it mirror driving? Yes. Was it reactionary? No. Was it attempting to anticipate the attacker's next move? Yes. Was it blocking? No.

If anything you should be critical of the reactionary movements of the following car. This wasn't Schumi and Rubens from 2010 because Rubens was fully alongside and was being put up against the pit wall. Markelov should have engaged his grey matter and used the DRS to go around Rowland before T1 or do a switch back on corner exit.

Both drivers were aggressive here but it isn't just to purely focus and blame Rowland. It takes two to tango.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:59 am

StefMeister wrote:

The issue with that for me is that there looks like there was a point where Markelov had a wheel alongside & at that point I feel Rowland should have stopped moving over & left the car's width that looked to be there.

Rowland however kept moving over (As you see from the 2nd image) when he should have known that with the speed advantage Markelov had from the slipstream & DRS he was only going to draw further alongside.

The first picture is key.

kals · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 2:16 am

That's irrelevant. And if that's the basis of your justification, then you have no argument.

Rowland goes to defend the inside. A moment later Markelov then decides he wants the inside. Both could have conceded but Markelov reacted to Rowland too late. Neither you or I like strong defensive tactics, yet in this case Rowland had already committed so it's Markelov's reactions that caused the final outcome. Case closed.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:01 pm

You're not a judge, Kals, I do have an argument and judging by race 2 today where it was still being debated fiercely, the case is far from closed :lol:

Blocking isn't gentlemanly racing, I'll never be ok with it. The end, case closed, jinx no comebacks :mrgreen:

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 1:20 pm

Not one post from the second race, so I will make it.

It was pretty much a parade, with a few passes.

kals · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:31 pm

codename_47 wrote:

You're not a judge, Kals, I do have an argument and judging by race 2 today where it was still being debated fiercely, the case is far from closed :lol:

Blocking isn't gentlemanly racing, I'll never be ok with it. The end, case closed, jinx no comebacks :mrgreen:

It is case closed when you refuse to accept or acknowledge the attacking driver. And for the final time, it wasn't blocking. Change the record or your glasses

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:42 pm

I mean, I could quote Stefmeister's post again but I don't think the judge is accepting hard evidence in this case

kals · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:27 pm

codename_47 wrote:

I mean, I could quote Stefmeister's post again but I don't think the judge is accepting hard evidence in this case

What evidence? Your justification and argument is based on 3 things:

1 - that photo
2 - your dislike of "blocking"
3 - other people aka GP2 commentators were discussing during today's race

So that's conjecture and personal opinion. There is no fact or evidence, let alone new, that you're offering.

Let's take apart each:

1 - the image is flawed and doesn't provide a fair reflection of the situation. It's a single snapshot in time. And even then there's a couple of items in the image that don't support your view. Firstly that Markelov has none of his car alongside Rowland. Being generous you could say a partial front wing end plate. You can see that the wheels are not aligned. Secondly Rowland is looking the opposite way. Markelov was going for an ever closing gap. Where did Markelov think he would finish the move? This is unlike Rosberg and Hamilton at Barcelona last year when Lewis moved first and Nico reacted. Had Rowland moved second, you and I wouldn't be having this discussion now.
2 - you and I agree on this. But you cannot judge every defensive move in the same capacity. Case in point is my example of Lewis and Nico above. Schumi on Alonso at Silverstone in 2003 is another example. Rowland moved first and maintained a consistent line towards the inside of the circuit.
3 - yes and? Has any new evidence appeared or are commentators also offering opinions based on conjecture?

I like the discussions you and I have, they're always entertaining. Yet we need to focus on fact and nothing else.

You're focused only on Rowland but there are two drivers in this situation. I'm not trying to change your mind, rather offer a different viewpoint looking at the overall incident. And like I said, when considering all the facts, it is cased closed.

Gaara · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:29 pm

Should we be giving him a shovel?

kals · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:25 pm

Gaara wrote:

Should we be giving him a shovel?

Paul or me?

Gaara · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:45 pm

kals wrote:

Gaara wrote:

Should we be giving him a shovel?

Paul or me?

Paul

kals · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:00 pm

Gaara wrote:

kals wrote:

Gaara wrote:

Should we be giving him a shovel?

Paul or me?

Paul

I thought so but wanted to check. Be careful though, you give him the shovel and he may not know whether to dig himself in deeper or dispatch the family pet. Do you want to take that risk?

Fabs · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:04 pm

ban tbh

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 9:24 pm

Blah blah monza cameraman blah blah cart blah blah blah plato sucks blah

RIP me on TBK 2002-2017 :cry:

kals · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 10:59 pm

codename_47 wrote:

RIP me on TBK 2002-2017 :cry:

I'm confused. Has @

Gaara given you the shovel and you're dispatching yourself?

Seems a bit extreme.

Gaara · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:08 pm

kals wrote:

codename_47 wrote:

RIP me on TBK 2002-2017 :cry:

I'm confused. Has @

Gaara given you the shovel and you're dispatching yourself?

Seems a bit extreme.

If he wants to bury himself alive I won't stop him :mrgreen:

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:29 pm

You guys are the closest things to this "friendship" thing I've heard other people going on about, and even you want to smack me about the head with a shovel, killing me dead, after I've dug my own grave with the shovel first

RIP ME :cry:

kals · PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 11:43 pm

I know we shouldn't joke about those kinds of things, but if it did happen, would Oliver Rowland still be to blame?

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