2018 Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg

Vassago · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:14 pm

StefMeister wrote:

I think no penalty is the right call TBH.

Rossi didn't run into him intentionally, That was perhaps his last shot at the win & he saw an opportunity braked super late & the back end got away from him.

Vassago wrote:

Huh? Dixon lost it on the very same paint and got penalised?

Difference is that Dixon wasn't trying to pass Sato when he hit him, He just braked far too late & drove into the back of Sato from quite a way back.

Dixon was still passing someone else. This excuse could be used here as well, he never wanted to crash Sato out yet he got penalised.

westracing01 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:16 pm

Coldtyre wrote:

Then every collision is an avoidable contact by your standards. All drivers should never take the decision to go alongside unless they're waved past by the driver ahead. Making the decision to make a move, is always avoidable.

I thought you were a racer yourself ? I mean, the move was reasonable, was executed in a fairly safe manner, but he ran slightly out of grip. Didn't bodge it by a mile. This is a textbook example of a racing incident, otherwise therr would never be any spice or risk in racing.

How did you get that out of way I said? Rossi tried a move, lost control, and took out the leader.

Is it a racing deal? Sure it is, but you can't take the leader out when your move goes bad.

Perhaps avoidable contact was not the right wording.

EDIT: Copied Coldtyre's post so my post makes sense in context. Was on my phone yesterday.

All I'm saying is that if Rossi had gotten in there and roughed up Wickens out of the way, that's one thing. But he took the leader out. If you don't penalize that, you're going to have more and more of those dive bombs and there will be little regard for whether or not the move has a high probability of working because there won't be any consequences if you knock the guy out of the way. Rossi had position, was 2/3 of the way along side at turn in (if you stop right there and Wickens had turned in on him OK, but...) and lost the backend at the same time. If Wickens wasn't there would Rossi have spun the thing out? Maybe, maybe not. If he had, what would you think then? He was still in control of the car or he out braked himself going for a move that might've been ill advised?

I agree that probably his only chance for the win was to try getting inside at Turn 1, so I agree that he had to try it. I just think that some kind of penalty for taking out the guy you're trying to pass is in order. That's where my issue on it is. If they bang wheels, fine. Taking the guy out, not so fine. Avoidable contact was the wrong wording.

racer612008 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:16 pm

That had to be the most " REAL RACIN' " race at St. Pete ever. That was entertaining from start to finish

Rossi deserves a ass kicking after that finish

also lolChiltonlol

Gaara · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:16 pm

Well PWC next

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:16 pm

Vassago wrote:

StefMeister wrote:

I think no penalty is the right call TBH.

Rossi didn't run into him intentionally, That was perhaps his last shot at the win & he saw an opportunity braked super late & the back end got away from him.

Vassago wrote:

Huh? Dixon lost it on the very same paint and got penalised?

Difference is that Dixon wasn't trying to pass Sato when he hit him, He just braked far too late & drove into the back of Sato from quite a way back.

Dixon was still passing someone else. This excuse could be used here as well, he never wanted to crash Sato out yet he got penalised.

Rossi and Wickens were side by side battling for the lead

Dixon went side by side with a car then outbraked himself and clattered into the car ahead of the one he was battling with

Those two incidents are very different and obviously race control feels the same way too

Gaara · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:19 pm

Vassago wrote:

StefMeister wrote:

I think no penalty is the right call TBH.

Rossi didn't run into him intentionally, That was perhaps his last shot at the win & he saw an opportunity braked super late & the back end got away from him.

Vassago wrote:

Huh? Dixon lost it on the very same paint and got penalised?

Difference is that Dixon wasn't trying to pass Sato when he hit him, He just braked far too late & drove into the back of Sato from quite a way back.

Dixon was still passing someone else. This excuse could be used here as well, he never wanted to crash Sato out yet he got penalised.

Neither were in control of their car. If you don't hit fine but both occasions led to the other car being spun out and Rossi got away with it more then Dixon did.

Vassago · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:21 pm

codename_47 wrote:

Vassago wrote:

StefMeister wrote:

I think no penalty is the right call TBH.

Rossi didn't run into him intentionally, That was perhaps his last shot at the win & he saw an opportunity braked super late & the back end got away from him.

Difference is that Dixon wasn't trying to pass Sato when he hit him, He just braked far too late & drove into the back of Sato from quite a way back.

Dixon was still passing someone else. This excuse could be used here as well, he never wanted to crash Sato out yet he got penalised.

Rossi and Wickens were side by side battling for the lead

Dixon went side by side with a car then outbraked himself and clattered into the car ahead of the one he was battling with

Those two incidents are very different and obviously race control feels the same way too

ICS race control is something I never trust. They don't know the word consistency at all.

kals · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:46 pm

Vassago wrote:

codename_47 wrote:

Dixon went side by side with a car then outbraked himself and clattered into the car ahead of the one he was battling with

Those two incidents are very different and obviously race control feels the same way too

ICS race control is something I never trust. They don't know the word consistency at all.

Interesting use of the word 'consistency' when talking about two completely different incidents :slaphead:

Whofan · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 8:48 pm

Can’t help but feel sorry for Wickens having not put a foot wrong all day. Still it was a very entertaining race with an eventful finish. Really looking forward to the rest of the season, it’s going to be a cracker

MotoKris1 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:25 pm

Time for Pro Mazda race 2

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:38 pm

Pre-Bris

codename_47 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 9:47 pm

Mystery abounds in the Star Madza race as we went yellow and now Red and no-one knows why....

racer612008 · PostPosted: Sun Mar 11, 2018 10:47 pm

another thought

props to Race Control & the Safety Crew in regards of cleaning up yellows very quickly. After past years I didn't see that coming. Wonder if it's a product of the new race director.

Soul Reaver · PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 5:33 am

Well pointed out!!

Ahh, Indy, how I missed you. Now I know, St Petersburg is great, the other cars that were not. Now only add those 150HP and can't get any better. But, for me, 70% into the right direction is already taken. 10x better than any other race here. Or any IRL street course.

INDYCAR IS FUCKING BACK

Juihi · PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:22 am

Just watched the race, a classic Indycar race!, you never know who's gona win! I love it

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:21 am

Gaara wrote:

Neither were in control of their car.

Yes. But one did it by a mile and slammed into the second car in front with a 15-20kph speed differential.

The other one got his car out of shape by perhaps a quarter of a car's width, and touched the side of the car he was directly racing against.

The magnitude of the mistake matters, that's how officiating works in any sport. I mean, for fuck's sake, y'all should stop ignoring the camera footage and playing on words like lawyers to try to put different situations in the same bag. Has F1 penalty system gotten into you?

Juihi · PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 9:27 am

Rossi had to go for it, he's a racing driver after all

hedgey666 · PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 1:52 pm

Rossi says on twitter that "I'm a racing driver and I went for the win." Hope that excuse works the other way round for him when someone else slams into him sideways and out of control and puts him into a wall.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 3:57 pm

hope that lack of drag could avoid constant blocking and pack racing in longer ovals

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Mon Mar 12, 2018 4:21 pm

westracing01 wrote:

Coldtyre wrote:

Then every collision is an avoidable contact by your standards. All drivers should never take the decision to go alongside unless they're waved past by the driver ahead. Making the decision to make a move, is always avoidable.

I thought you were a racer yourself ? I mean, the move was reasonable, was executed in a fairly safe manner, but he ran slightly out of grip. Didn't bodge it by a mile. This is a textbook example of a racing incident, otherwise therr would never be any spice or risk in racing.

How did you get that out of way I said? Rossi tried a move, lost control, and took out the leader.

Is it a racing deal? Sure it is, but you can't take the leader out when your move goes bad.

Perhaps avoidable contact was not the right wording.

EDIT: Copied Coldtyre's post so my post makes sense in context. Was on my phone yesterday.

All I'm saying is that if Rossi had gotten in there and roughed up Wickens out of the way, that's one thing. But he took the leader out. If you don't penalize that, you're going to have more and more of those dive bombs and there will be little regard for whether or not the move has a high probability of working because there won't be any consequences if you knock the guy out of the way. Rossi had position, was 2/3 of the way along side at turn in (if you stop right there and Wickens had turned in on him OK, but...) and lost the backend at the same time. If Wickens wasn't there would Rossi have spun the thing out? Maybe, maybe not. If he had, what would you think then? He was still in control of the car or he out braked himself going for a move that might've been ill advised?

I agree that probably his only chance for the win was to try getting inside at Turn 1, so I agree that he had to try it. I just think that some kind of penalty for taking out the guy you're trying to pass is in order. That's where my issue on it is. If they bang wheels, fine. Taking the guy out, not so fine. Avoidable contact was the wrong wording.

I get your point, but even without getting caught up in the wording, I still can't say I agree.

I'm not even discussing whether Rossi is at fault here, he 100% is because he lost the back end. The key point here, which you mentioned, is the probability of the move of working. Some divebombs have a high probability of working, others don't. If officials keep penalizing the latter, but not the former, I'm fine with it and that's what overtaking is all about. There's still the word "risk" in "calculated risk". Rossi's mistake is the smallest one you can make while going for a move, so if that is penalized, you'll end up penalizing any attempt that isn't 100% sure. And 100%-sure passes are not racing, they're just glorified multi-lane highway passes, and I don't want the drivers being channeled into only making such moves and never making a daring one because it has a slim possibility of taking the leader out.

The message from the stewards yesterday was clear: race each other at the limit, you can make a small mistake, just don't make a super big one and completely misjudge it. I say it's the perfect recipe for entertaining racing: neither dirty/unprofessional, nor sanitized.

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2018 Firestone Grand Prix of St. Petersburg

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