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The 99th Indianapolis 500
https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=9177		 Page 34 of 71
Author:  electrodevo [ Tue May 19, 2015 1:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
Soul Reaver wrote:
I really hate for the safety of all, and the health of the Indycar series.


I can pretty much guarantee that Hinch's crash would've been a *much* worse result even 20 years ago, in a world with no SAFER barriers etc.

The safety improvements are good news, but it seems like there is more panic than normal these days... which is weird to me. The main reason for all this scrutiny I guess has been Helio's unusual flight coming first (the St Pete lawsuit certainly contributes).

The other accidents are honestly not *that* unusual for the Dallara (which has that flat underbody that seems to get air a bit easier than other designs in the past).

Imagine if Jim Crawford's 1990 flight took place in today's environment. :p
Author:  Pretzel [ Tue May 19, 2015 2:06 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
could you imagine the moral panic that would be induced if the 1992 Indy 500 happened in this age?


EDIT: Post 666 :twisted:
Author:  westracing01 [ Tue May 19, 2015 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
They sent what, 4 or 5 guys to the hospital out of that race? '92 was a demo derby.

I think one of the issues with the Dallara is the mandate that the body work goes right to the edge of the rear tires. In principle this is to prevent getting a wheel of one car in between the wheels of another. However, it also increases the overall surface area of the floor beneath the car and of course that added surface area grabs air when it gets sideways.

At this point, it's damned if you do and damned if you don't. The best way to solve that issue, and probably solve most of the other ones, is to take off downforce, narrow the floors and add some horsepower. This would make them more difficult to drive, thus separating the field more and greatly reducing the possibilty of interlocking wheels negating the need for the wheel covers, remove underbody surface area so the cars would be less susceptible to catching air once sideways and the increased horsepower would just add to the difficulty of driving the cars. Downforce levels could be played with via the underbody ground effects tunnels and diffuser. This would keep the Dallara's ability to follow closely through the corners without having to have such a large sail under the car.
Author:  Gaara [ Tue May 19, 2015 2:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
Half the issue could be that people are so used to overall safety, things like this are more alarming. Same reson drivers are more willing to make contact while fighting for position.

Was it '96 or '97 that a single IRL chassis sent three drivers to hospital?

Plus I don't remember LMP's getting this much stick when they had all those take off's.
Author:  Joe A [ Tue May 19, 2015 2:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
From memory, Sneva, Mario and Jeff Andretti, Emmo, Crawford, Mears, Brian Bonner and Vasser all went to Methodist on Race Day '92.
Author:  Cheeveer [ Tue May 19, 2015 2:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
Joe A wrote:
From memory, Sneva, Mario and Jeff Andretti, Emmo, Crawford, Mears, Brian Bonner and Vasser all went to Methodist on Race Day '92.


Plus a crew member of John Andretti's team. And Piquet during practice, and not to forget Jovy Marcelo... I have the yearbook, and there was a lot of talk about safety after that one indeed. But no where near the panic of today.
Author:  Andre [ Tue May 19, 2015 2:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
And Piquet during practice that year, I think?

*posting before Googling...*

Yup, like dicksplaash said, that year was a tough one all-around... if Facebook and Twitter had been a thing, I can only imagine the backlash.
Author:  J.Morelli [ Tue May 19, 2015 2:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
I had noticed that since Dw12's introduction in 2012 we see a new culture of "front wings" with larger side blades in Indianapolis. If you take back from 2011 backwards, you'll see a completely rejection to large front wings and no side blade whatsoever or tiny ones. A long-term culture of using flat small wings at the brickyard prevailed for decades.

However, If we think IndyCar is trying nowadays to raise speeds in Indy, why they're making larger front wings and side blades? The goal is to raise speeds in the turns instead of straights? Can somebody give a technical explanation?

Image Image Image
Author:  westracing01 [ Tue May 19, 2015 3:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
Gaara wrote:
Plus I don't remember LMP's getting this much stick when they had all those take off's.


There was quite an uproar when seemingly every LMP that turned sideways went to the air. That brought us the sharkfin and the fender cutouts. Still happens, just less so.
Author:  Pretzel [ Tue May 19, 2015 3:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
dicksplaash wrote:
Joe A wrote:
From memory, Sneva, Mario and Jeff Andretti, Emmo, Crawford, Mears, Brian Bonner and Vasser all went to Methodist on Race Day '92.


Plus a crew member of John Andretti's team. And Piquet during practice, and not to forget Jovy Marcelo... I have the yearbook, and there was a lot of talk about safety after that one indeed. But no where near the panic of today.



the Wiki article stated Danny Ongias and Hiro Matsushita also hurt themselves.
Author:  Gaara [ Tue May 19, 2015 3:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/11693 ... s-injuries

Damn,
Author:  Cheeveer [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
That's awful. And still 228mph at that point. Adding downforce and lower power is the worst thing they can do right now. The cornering speeds are the biggest problem Indycars on ovals face today, safety wise.

More power, more drag, less downforce, more efficient rear wheel guards in regard to airbornes?
Author:  LucasWheldon [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
damn, they should focus on reinforcing tube frame on safety cell instead of putting more downforce
Author:  Joe A [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
Pretzel wrote:
dicksplaash wrote:

Plus a crew member of John Andretti's team. And Piquet during practice, and not to forget Jovy Marcelo... I have the yearbook, and there was a lot of talk about safety after that one indeed. But no where near the panic of today.



the Wiki article stated Danny Ongias and Hiro Matsushita also hurt themselves.


Ongais was in the middle of his first retirement in 1992. He didn't race again until 1996.
Author:  J.Morelli [ Tue May 19, 2015 4:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
Why I have made the front wing question? Is there any connection between large front wing, excess of pressure on tyres and components fatigue (like front suspension for example) ? If there is a connection, all three accidents may have in commom the new front wing. Perhaps, I'm completely wrong but I think raising speeds in turns may be a recipe for more accidents.
Author:  Cheeveer [ Tue May 19, 2015 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
J.Morelli wrote:
Why I have made the front wing question? Is there any connection between large front wing, excess of pressure on tyres and components fatigue (like front suspension for example) ? If there is a connection, all three accidents may have in commom the new front wing. Perhaps, I'm completely wrong but I think raising speeds in turns may be a recipe for more accidents.


Maybe. Cornering speeds are at least more troublesome than straight-line speeds.
Author:  J.Morelli [ Tue May 19, 2015 5:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
Ok, my question is obvious. Of course raising speed in turns is troublesome but If you see those quali laps, drivers making those 4 turns with full throttle, that's really something to worry about. If you push that to the limit, equipment may not endure forces in this chassis.

In my opinion, If IndyCar wants to raise speeds in Indianapolis, they'll have to do it favoring straights and not turns.
Author:  Pretzel [ Tue May 19, 2015 5:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
Joe A wrote:
Pretzel wrote:
dicksplaash wrote:

Plus a crew member of John Andretti's team. And Piquet during practice, and not to forget Jovy Marcelo... I have the yearbook, and there was a lot of talk about safety after that one indeed. But no where near the panic of today.



the Wiki article stated Danny Ongias and Hiro Matsushita also hurt themselves.


Ongais was in the middle of his first retirement in 1992. He didn't race again until 1996.


Well it was Pancho Carter who got hurt. Don't know why I called him Danny Ongias
Author:  sennadesillva [ Tue May 19, 2015 5:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
i cant find it but im sure someone knows, what was Arie Luyendyk's top speed during his run? not quickest lap but top speed at the end of the straights?
Author:  Ian-S [ Tue May 19, 2015 5:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: The 99th Indianapolis 500
Gaara wrote:
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/116939-indy-500-hinchcliffe-saved-from-serious-injuries

Damn,


Ouch.

Back in the late 80/90's we had a spate of similar incidents in formula ford & first where the wishbones penetrated the chassis and essentially stabbed the driver, leading to quiet a few people getting hurt with similar injuries, back then the fix was to put an additional horizontal bar between the two wishbone legs on the outside of the chassis which made the wishbone less arrow like, after that happened, no more leg injuries even if a few of us got close.

If Indycar is as serious about safety as they appear to be, they could get this done for Sunday, one guy at Van Diemen managed to modify 60 wishbones in a few days, they were sent out and we were told, fit them or you don't race. If they cut the bullshit, they could get them done for carb day.
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