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2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
https://www.tbk-light.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=69&t=10590		 Page 11 of 15
Author:  cArmAkAze [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:21 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
So far Marc's idea of putting a fucking lake in the turns is looking real good
Author:  Ian-S [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
On some tracks you cannot raise the walls because they will fall over under their own weight.

Every track has risks, the same style accident happened on a street track not so many years ago too.
Author:  Coldtyre [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
cArmAkAze wrote:
Okay so we got move the fence back, raise the wall a couple of feet, and add plexiglass. How far do we move the fence back? Wouldn't the raised wall have sent Wickens' car into the fence at a higher angle, and maybe have turned the top of tub into the fence? How thick is the plexiglass? 1/8 inch? An inch? 12 inches? Are we sure it's not gonna break and cut up more vital arteries and shit?

Seriously, we gonna fix this shit right here and now. Lots of big brains in here, lets work this out

Duly noted, I will make sure to chime in with this sort of constructive reply any time we go speculating on driver contracts, sponsorhip deals, calendar/tracks, technical regulations, etc... all topics we're equally as qualified to talk about as we are regarding safety features.
Author:  Gaara [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
Ian-S wrote:
On some tracks you cannot raise the walls because they will fall over under their own weight.

Every track has risks, the same style accident happened on a street track not so many years ago too.


And could possibly turn into ramps which would be worse.

One way is to reduce the chance of taking off in wheel to wheel contact but certain people will bitch about closing up the wheel like they did when the cars had the rear wheel guards.
Author:  electrodevo [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 1:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
cArmAkAze wrote:
Oh, and from the commentary in this thread, it really sounds like a lot of you need to become engineers and find an alternative to catch fences. All the answers and no viable fucking solutions


It takes time, a large monetary commitment, and probably a few prototypes to rethink this sort of thing. It took a few tries before the SAFER barrier after all, with the full weight of the Indianapolis Motor Speedway behind that initiative (and NASCAR cash to boot). It also helps that a SAFER barrier isn't *that* expensive overall. (Something that's the equivalent of replacing 2.5 miles of catch fence with plexiglass sounds pricey!)

30 years ago, Pocono only had short boilerplate steel walls and no catch fence at all. Just like 7 or 8 years ago, Pocono had enough of a lack of a catch fence for Kasey Kahne to come semi-close of going out of the park on Long Pond Straight. So, it could have been worse.

With auto racing in decline overall and especially with catch fences being more of an issue for the more cash strapped open wheel cars (as far as injuring drivers goes), I have no idea what enthusiasm there would be for further major developments in safety in this area.

I suspect any engineering development would involve something to do with preventing the fence poles from causing those tremendous G-force changes, but I can only speculate. :p
Author:  westracing01 [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
Catch fences two primary jobs are to keep a car in the racetrack and keep the fans safe from debris.

This particular crash was a combination of perfect circumstances. The car did not take off as we have traditionally seen. The impact with the wall carried it up into the fence with momentum.

As for fencing alternatives... I have none. The current fence works, but is far from ideal once a car get into it. The problem is the fence has to be able to stop various cars at various speeds.
Author:  LucasWheldon [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
in places like Pocono where the dangerous spots doesn't have grandstands, making a weaker catchfencing could do it better, but that crappy repair they made during red flag was no good for high speed racing
Author:  SBan83 [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 4:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
Best solution: Drown the track and have boat races instead.
Author:  westracing01 [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 5:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
The beauty of the SAFER barrier, from a track financial view, is it was designed so every track could be retro fitted simply by adding the new barrier. They didn't have to tear out the existing walls.

For any new catch fence system, this would be a key factor as well. Have to come up with something so the current fencing could be retrofitted with the new system.
Author:  Whofan [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
Just seen the Wickens crash, fuck that was ugly. So glad to hear his injuries aren’t life threatening
Author:  pending [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
Not trying to be negative or anything, but am I the only one kind of worried about the lack of updates on the extent of Wickens' injuries?
Author:  NVirkkula [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 8:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
pending wrote:
Not trying to be negative or anything, but am I the only one kind of worried about the lack of updates on the extent of Wickens' injuries?


I'm also a bit worried, but surely they had given the official update from medical center with lesser enthusiasm, had there been fear of other than what stated.

Maybe they need to do few more surgeries or just give Robert some rest. He took quite beating there.
Author:  Tristar 7AT [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
Honestly when it comes to improving the walls, there really isn't a solution that doesn't result in a complete teardown and replacement of the track walls. TThink about how long is took for tracks to adapt a complete outside and mostly inside SAFER and what the cost of that entailed. These tracks aren't making money with piss poor attendance. You think they're going to want to do a rebuild? Tracks will close before retrofitting the walls. If an engineer had a economical and working solution to the catch fence problem, they would have come up with it by now. Tempered glass still needs to be held up by posts. Netting still needs to be held up by posts, everything needs to be supported by posts. No fence and the seats pushed back about 100' might be the only solution. A fence should protect the fans but it shouldn't be what keeps the cars on the track. We see what happens in drag racing when a car goes over the wall, it doesn't hit a fence, it slides or rolls in the grass. Maybe tracks can put a large paved section at the height of the wall so cars go on that and scrub off speed before hitting the actual wall. Chances are they aren't going to go airborne twice and not hit the spectator fence. But what do we do about street circuits? The fence Franchitti hit caused more harm to fans than debris from the car. What can IndyCar car require temporary tracks to have that is safe other than whats already available?

Of course now we're talking millions of cubic feet of dirt fill and paving miles and miles of pavement. Hell these tracks don't even want to pave their parking lots. I say the only real solution is to not put these cars on these tracks, Indy included. That's never going to happen. For the time being we're just going to have to accept the fact that open wheel cars will always be a dangerous car on high speed ovals. The safety cage of a stock car has been proven to keep the driver from harm when going into a catch fence. Stock car racing still outsells IndyCar. You want the NASCAR bread and butter tracks to spend all their money on loss leader IndyCar?
Author:  racer612008 [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
Tristar 7AT wrote:
...

To be fair, if Dillon's crash at Daytona a few years back was roof first. I think the safety cage of a stock car wouldn't be so proven. Hope it never happens (again, as it's happened & killed before), but they shouldn't be so sure about that.
Author:  racer612008 [ Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
Medical update on Wickens
[tweet]https://twitter.com/IndyCar/status/1031661587634036736[/tweet]
Author:  RtN [ Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
The vacuity of detail regarding the spine is a concern. Taking a look in the 2013 Houston thread, the precise nature of Franchitti's injuries were revealed the same night.
Author:  FiatFan83 [ Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE: Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
racer612008 wrote:
Medical update on Wickens
[tweet]https://twitter.com/IndyCar/status/1031661587634036736[/tweet]
Was honestly afraid it was something to that effect.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Author:  FiatFan83 [ Tue Aug 21, 2018 12:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: RE: Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
RtN wrote:
The vacuity of detail regarding the spine is a concern. Taking a look in the 2013 Houston thread, the precise nature of Franchitti's injuries were revealed the same night.
I've chilled out myself since the post I made yesterday, and it certainly isn't their duty to tell us everything, but it certainly is troubling how vague they are being, considering both him and his fiancee are members of the social media generation.

It really seems like there are some important aspects of his wellbeing still up in the air right now.



Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
Author:  Ian-S [ Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
^^ either that or Indycar is run by a bunch of people who don't get the "social media generation".

I know my niece was horrified today that I didn't have Twitter or anything like that and that nearly everything 'social' on my phone was turned off meaning she had to type in her number instead of just tapping the phone. I'm the age of most Indycar top brass, so...
Author:  RtN [ Tue Aug 21, 2018 1:06 am ]
Post subject:  Re: 2018 ABC Supply 500 at Pocono
I don't believe it's Indycar controlling the information that's going out. They are the conduit but the hospital and family are deciding what it actually says.
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