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Yeah, there's not much to it other than the 47 majorly fucked up and Jimmy, as he so often is, was in the right place to take advantage of it.

I just want to know why the team told Ambrose to flick the engine switch. Was there a fault or is it just something drivers do to do "system checks" when under yellow? Fuel definitely shouldn't have been an issue unless they short-fuelled him. Either way Ambrose should have had the presence of mind to not do it on an uphill section.

Kenseth lost his mind and was N2k3 it on the last lap there.

Yeah. As much as I hate to see a race end like that, that's just stupid.

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I love road racing, but NASCAR has just had a habit lately of making a great form of racing into total and complete fail. Really the only way to describe the entire race weekend, between stupid full course cautions that were completely unwarranted and BS calls that cost Ambrose the win.

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What a collective group of whiny, bitchy little faggots you bunch are

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Was really bummed when Labonte got spun out of a top 20 on the last lap. Been a shit year for him Oh well, pretty good races this weekend minus the finish/winners.

Robby Gordon 2nd

Bumbed Ambrose lost, really thought it was his time to finally win.

Pretty much all the drivers I wanted to do well were taken out in stupid moves.

Brad drove Ekstrom off the road and the commentators were somehow blaming the 83. (Look at the 2 cars behind running exactly the same lines and not driving into each other)

Sadler and Bowyer drove really well and it was great to see them in the top 10 after both being involved in earlier incidents. Then Jeff wiped them both out in one move. What the hell was he doing all race?

Boris Said. Not sure where he finished but well done Brad in driving him out of the lead at one of the restarts.

And Marcos... What more can I add? At least Robby finishing 2nd is kind of cool.

I think that's a very simplistic view of things

Take MotoGP at the moment, for instance - even though Rossi has pretty much cleaned up over the last few years and made it very boring and predictable, viewing figures will be down because he's not racing. It would've been the same had Michael Schumacher, in his long run of success in the 2000s, been injured during that run and not able to race - viewing figures were down already but they'd have dropped even more, even if there was a guarantee of someone different winning the races. And of course last year, F1 was staring down the barrel if the FOTA teams had pulled out and gone to form their own series

It's never a case of "one man winning all the time = viewing figures plunge, so someone different winning = viewing figures stay the same/go up", especially in NASCAR which sees loads of different winners anyway. I'd have said Johnson winning would be seen as better than some Australian bloke most of the US has never heard of winning for the first time and upsetting the status quo. We all might like an underdog story here but we're very much in the minority. The truth is even I don't bother watching series if I don't know who the guys that are racing in it are

So, even if you see Johnson winning again as a negative, it is still the lesser of two evils for NASCAR from a commercial point of view

Ambrose has been around long enough that everyone knows who he is. But that doesn't matter anyway, like I said, if NASCAR didn't want to risk having an "outsider" win, what's stopping them from keeping them out completely? Why would NASCAR have ever bothered to race in Canada, Mexico, and Japan? Why NOT bring in drivers from other countries, that could only bring in more interest to the sport? You say Johnson winning "makes more sense commercially", But doesn't NASCAR just ultimately want more fans? You really think if Ambrose won that people would throw up their arms and say "NEVER WATCHING NASCAR AGAIN!"?

Funny, people are doing that because he didn't win.

I'm sick of this myth that NASCAR and it's fans are intolerant of "foreigners". I guarantee you that if you polled the fans at yesterday's race, most of them would rather have seen Ambrose win than Johnson.

And don't think that we're some sort of special, intelligent collection of people here that think so much differently than any of the other race fans out there. This is something that drives me nuts about online communities - every one of them thinks they're a collection of "special" people.

For the record, I don't think it's got anything to do with nationality - that was just a tongue in cheek comment. However, he's still only a midfielder. I don't think that "everyone" knows who he is beyond acknowledgement of his participation - most of his here know he was a double V8 Supercar champion and a bloody good driver out in Oz but I very much doubt we're in the majority

And also, even if they were all a bunch of xenophobes, there is a potential reasoning for still bringing foreigners in - to prove that "their boys" can beat them to "prove" that NASCAR has the best drivers in the world. But that's way too tinfoil hat for me


I think there's a subtle difference between wanting to make more money and wanting more fans, especially as "fans" is such a broad term. Usually they want to attract more casual fans because they know that the hardcore will carry on watching anyway, even if they threaten to boycott once in a while - I really doubt NASCAR will be that bothered if SecretAgentHarvick doesn't bother watching again

Casual fans, more often than not, tend to be gloryhunters. So trying to keep the casual fans interested involves playing to the big names. It was the same in F1. Ferrari got the rub of the green with decisions for a while. They just happen to be the most popular team, and their biggest source for their fanbase is casual fans. One of my mates is like this - watches F1 and MotoGP, and loves Schumacher, Ferrari and Rossi, because they're the "best"

Something I've noticed a lot with F1 in particular, and my mate fits this perfectly, is that casual fans tend to be middle class, meaning they have more money and are more willing to spend on things like tickets, merchandise etc - hence why a lot of the companies that sponsor teams and races these days tend to be bluechip or financial companies or that end of the market, because it's all targeted at the casual audience. You won't find me buying cans of Red Bull just because I'm a Webber fan, but you will find my mate buying models of Schumacher's Ferraris or Rossi's Yamahas. I'm sure we all know people like that

I don't know enough about NASCAR's fanbase to know if this is also the case here - correct me if I'm wrong but I get the impression that casual NASCAR fans tend to be a lot more of a mix. However, it is absolutely loaded with advertising and sponsorship - that's where they make their money. So, look at it this way - who would NASCAR rather in Victory Lane, the Lowe's driver or the Clorox driver?

I came to accept some time ago that Ferrari would always get the benefit of the doubt with decisions more often than not because it pisses off less people. In some ways, I don't blame them, because F1 makes more money out of Ferrari winning, even if they're winning every race and/or in an unfair fashion, although I still think it is a bad thing out of principle - sport shouldn't operate out of a pretence of being fair if it isn't (at least the WWE effectively admits that it's rigged). It's the same for NASCAR, and it's the same in sport in general, actually - 9 times out of 10, officials and governing bodies pander to the majority, because the sport makes more money when the big names do well

(Apologies for the long-winded, slightly condescending explanation but my internet went down halfway through writing it so I kept going)


I have no doubt that there are plenty of intelligent people out there who follow the sport but don't feel the need to argue on the internet. Equally, not everyone here is an expert. And that's fine. There are some sports that I follow quite casually and don't know an awful lot about, like MotoGP (or NASCAR even!) - nothing wrong with not immersing yourself in every detail

The majority of people who follow mainstream sports in general are always casual fans who don't know an enormous amount. I'm not trying to be snobbish about it - that's just the way it is. There are more people like my mate or my dad following F1 than me, and the same goes for most sports. Hence why the best teams are always the most popular, be it Ferrari, the Yankees or Man Utd

I don't think NASCAR has a preference as to who wins, otherwise they wouldn't make such a huge deal about making sure the cars are all basically the same. It also works out in their favor if things are unpredictable, because it makes for a better "show".

I think the biggest problem is that NASCAR comes across as making things up as they go along, and when things end up being inconsistent in any way, people think NASCAR is playing favorites. They are absolutely terrible at making rules and enforcing them. I don't think they pick and choose who they punish based on shady backroom deals or anything, they just have complete idiots making all the calls.

They are also, without a doubt, the worst sanctioning body on earth as far as trying to hold a race on a road course. It's hard to imagine that they used to hold 500 mile races at Riverside.

Unpredictability isn't always what they want, though. It is good for them only up to a certain degree. If they really wanted it totally unpredictable, they'd introduce loads of artificial shit and literally anyone would be in with a chance. And people wouldn't watch it


That I agree with

I agree that my view is simplistic, but here's the deal.

NASCAR wants more and more fans.
Jimmie Johnson winning generates more disenchanted fans (for some reason, more than when horseface Hamlin wins again and again).
Marcos Ambrose winning would have undoubtedly made a lot of fans happy (à la B-Kez at Talladega).
That didn't happen. And now people are saying NASCAR's rigged it so that the 48 can win every week, thus killing it's hardcore fanbase and undoubtedly lowering ratings (and overall revenue) on a regular basis?

If NASCAR doesn't make the call, they're blowing it. If they make the call (which they should), they're blowing it. The only "problem" with it all is that, once again, the 48 is right there, waiting to pick up the pieces. Just like Bristol.

I agree that NASCAR's made some less than stellar decisions as of late, but they're still a business. Dollars are what they want, and if you somehow think that Mr. Hendrick can magically generate more money than what fans bring into NASCAR, then maybe you're too far along for your opinion to be changed. Just don't be surprised when we call you crazy.

Keselowski winning at Dega is a completely different deal. He's a young guy, and he's Junior's protege

Ambrose winning would've made a handful of a people happy and a lot more nonplussed, more than from another Johnson win

Look at what is happening now at Wimbledon. There's a full stadium there for the Federer vs Falla game. And they're all cheering on the Swiss machine despite the fact that he has won umpteen million titles and he's playing shit. It's exactly the same as NASCAR. There are plenty of Jimmie Johnson fans out there. You are making out that nobody likes him - hardly anyone likes him here but it's not representative of the bigger picture. With the number of titles he's won, he's bound to have a large fanbase. Hendrick do too


So the fact that money's involved makes it OK?

I don't think NASCAR give a shit who wins their races as long as they don't bring the sport into disrepute through doing it. Cheats get hammered. Even the #48 got hammered at Daytona one year for cheating. Ambrose didn't follow the rules and he was hammered for it. Those are the rules you subscribe to.

If it was someone like Kevin Harvick or Clint Bowyer who had broken the rules and been put back, no-one would be moaning. But because it's poor Marcus, there are a ton of people seemingly up in arms. Why?

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Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
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Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.