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Endurance might not interest any non-racing fan, but 'Le Mans' has been and will always be a great marketing vehicle (more so than F1, probably), which is why manufacturers are gradually becoming more and more interested again.

Endurance racing is more pleasing to people that often go to the race instead of watching on TV because the event itself is not only the race but a whole set of entertainement, specially at Le Mans

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I find endurance racing increasingly pleasing because they are longer. I usually don't want races to end. I want to be kept entertained.

Not in LMP1 level

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Well arguably Lotus aren't a manufacturer in either F1 or WEC, as they are merely a sponsor.

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
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where a sponsor. Deal in WEC has ended as has it in F1. Genii only uses the name.
After Bahar was done with Lotus there wasn't a dime left to scratch their buts with..... Hopefully they recover from that idiot.

100% agree, but F1 has the advantage of being in the public eye, so it could claim stuff like breaking ground that WEC actually broke and people would be none the wiser. Only the niche hardcore would know.



Not at Prototype level unless you count Lotus (which nobody really does), but at GT Level Ferrari do supply GTE 458s, and AF Corse are kinda considered to be a works team at this point. After that you need to go down to GT3 level where McLaren and Mercedes are supplying cars, but not works entries again.

I guess part of the reason is that the VW Group has no interest in F1, which means half of the sportscar entries don't go to F1. Audi run works backed R8s in various races, as well as the R18 obviously. Porsche run both works LMP1s and GTE-Pro cars. The other obvious VW Group entry is Bentley, who run works GT3s in Blancpain Endurance Series.

whereas you are right about that statement, they had to implement all kinds of rules to try to make that gap so small (engine size, size of fuel cell etc). And that makes it not easy to follow and fully understand the rules implemented for the occasional racing fan. Furthermore, they think of eachother that the other one has got an advantage.

and 'freedom in car design'? I mean, paint the Audi's, Porsches and Toyota's in the same colour, and there won't be that much difference, not more or less than comparing F1 cars.

Yeah should have put the emphasize on technology and not on aerodynamics, since all the LMP1's look alike. I think ACO did a good job balancing the different technologies though.

Im not familiar with old F1 rules but dint the FIA did any balancing when engines rules where still free by choice (like the 90's with V12/V10/V8)?

Yes there would. No offence, but this comment is completely uninformed and quite unlike you. None of those cars are even remotely similar apart from being LMP1 cars. They've taken completely different approaches to front end aerodynamics, especially on the wheel covers. If you blank off the lights and paint them all the same colour then it's pretty obvious which car is which - especially the Audi with the swooped back arches and upward vents between the nose and each wheel arch. The Toyota and Porsche have taken a more squared off route to the arches and lights, but completely different noses - the Toyota is rather thin and F1 like, whilst the Porsche is wide. I could go on talking about the aerodynamic differences if you want, but it'd be pages of text.

But snce freedom of car design extends to internals rather than externals, let's talk about the engines and power train.

Audi R18
Diesel Hybrid
4 Litre V6
Hybrid System - Flywheel
Energy Recovered from Front Wheels - 2MJ maximum
4WD through hybrid

Toyota TS040
Petrol Hybrid
3.7 Litre V8
Hybrid System - 2x Supercapacitors
Energy recovered from both axles - 6MJ Maximum (possible expansion to 8MJ)
4WD through hybrid

Porsche 919
Petrol Hybrid
2 Lite V4
Hybrid System - Lithium Ion Battery & Exhaust Turbine
Energy recovered from rear axle and exhaust system - 8MJ
RWD only

These cars are *completely* different, in every possible way. They've taken very different approaches to trying to achieve the same goal. Oh, and the estimate power output from the engines and combined hybrid systems is around 1100hp. Yeah. I hate this attitude of "they're all the same...except where they aren't". F1 cars aren't all that similar either, and if you go back 20 years they still look the damn same.

You are right that my comment is somewhat uninformed. But I was really talking in general. I have looked up again the pictures of the Toyotas, Porsches and Audis. The Toyota looks quite destinctive. But the Porsche and Audi, from the 'front sight' really look very similar. Just put the pictures next to each other. Off course there ARE differences. They are not the same cars. I am not saying that the visual differences can have huge consequences, but just from the looks of it 'at first sight'.

If they would be painted in the same colour, I would not be able to tell which one is the Porsche and which one is the Audi. I am honnest about that, also due to the fact I haven't seen much from this series this year. Perhaps if I would watch a race on tv I might.

The Audi channels air up through the bodywork to exit between the arches and nose. The Porsche keeps the air low to come out of the sidepods, behind the rear wheels. The Audis brake cooling is underneath the nose, above the splitter. the Porsches brake cooling is built into the bodywork (although that will probably change for Le Mans, as those openings are very large). And of course the most obvious visual difference is the Audi has smooth LED headlights with laser strips down the sides, whilst the Porsche has old fashioned style headlights. They are *completely* different and very distinctive. These cars are easily identifiable - more so than LMP2 cars for example.

They are similar in that they have a roof, headlights, wheel arches and bodywork that covers the gaps between the major components, but that's it. They're similar in the same way that a Ferrari and a Volvo are similar. They have a roof, 4 wheels, engine in the front (in some cases), etc etc. But they are really completely different.

I would have expected the Porsche to basically be a rebadged Audi....

Oh how wrong you were. WEC is too serious for rebadging operations.

The development of the teams was 100% separate. Audi didn't even know Porsche had laser scanned Le Mans for example.

*ahem* Lotus?

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BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

I think he's joking, as WEC has a LOT of rebadging.

Lotus at least attempted to make a car (although it was out sourced). But -

Morgan = OAK Pescarolo 01
Alpine = ORECA 03
Caterham = Zytek

The Caterham rebadge wasn't even a rebadge. They didn't even bother paying the money to rebrand the chassis and just sponsored Greaves Motorsport. Then they had Mike Gascoyne talk about all the development they'd done...which was just complete horse shit, since it was done by Zytek.

Everybody is comparing oranges with apples. They are two entirely different catagories of racing with two entirely different purposes. Really when was the last time that an engine manafacturer actually used F1 to highlight its breakthrough technology that had relevance to its road cars? I can only really think of Renault back in the late 70s with the introduction of turbos.

In essence F1 is not about showcasing your latest technology (FIA rules dictate that), that is the WEC or other tin top series that does that. F1 is about being seen as a highly visible member of an exclusive and exotic club. It is in a nut shell, a superficial outlier series that gives outstanding and highly visible bragging rights. Why do you think Honda wants back in?

More like different meaning of "rebadging". I meant like the way Toro Rosso and Super Aguri did in F1 years ago. Porsche would never lower their standards to that level.

Caterham <-- Zytek <-- Reynard (2002) --> also evolved in Creation.
Alphine <-- Oak Pescarolo <-- Pescarolo <-- Courage C60 --> Which also developed in HPD and Oreca

We also had the Lola Aston of course, which Prodrive tried to rename DBR1. Lola didn't agreed with that since the car was basically an Lola with just an Aston Martin grill. That Lola also still is used as a base for the shitty Mazda effort in USC.

Lot of rebadging in WEC, just not with the serious efforts. I also thought VAG would come with an effort that would look like the AUDI (for cost) but they seriously seem to keep everything apart, which I applaud.