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Right on ellis.

@Ayrton S - So you're complaining about Vettel being a constant crybaby but the section of your comment that I've highlighted doesn't really help your case. Kind of infers you've no idea how often he does what you're complaining about.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

Not really. ellis' point on the previous page (and quoted above) pretty much sums it up perfectly.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

I don't really believe guys like Vettel & Alonso whine over the radio any more or less than any of the other drivers to be honest.

I think the perception that they do comes down to FOM playing there team radio's on the world-feed more than other drivers. If we hard access to every drivers radio we would probably hear them all bitching just as much as each other, Especially when it comes to what they see as marginal racing situation.

agreed that Ayrton S also has to tip in, but you prove nothing if you do not compare. You just sum up a list.

Yes.

That's the thing. I'm not the ONE. Lines ahead mine, and someone said exactly the same thing than me.

It's not the first time people talk about Vettel whining, and to be honest, I'm too tired with work and shit to remember every time he was doing that. Sure, good point for Rtn that he can remember this so sharply and so fastly, but today I can't. But don't talk as it's a big surprise that some people thinks Vettel act like a pussy. It doesn't change that fact he's a great driver, ans he's not a "I have a best car so I win" one.

But yeah, it's annoying when I hear RBR radio and a 3 times world champion blaming another dude (and another WC, this time). for not letting pass.
Kimi is a fucking WC, Hungagoring is a hard-for-pass track, and this turn is a very hard spot to pass someone. That's it.

I don't need to compare. In a debate all parties have to bring information to back up their points. My point was to show that Alonso does whine. My point was achieved. The next step is for someone to back up their point that Vettel moans a lot. I've yet to see that. That is not my responsibility. End of.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

I fell asleep at some point during the warm up lap and when I woke up the race had just started. I missed the start by about two seconds.

Interesting seeing a debate here. I admit it. I must be very F1 casual. I twitched off as soon as I saw Kimi's car stopped and have more or less stopped thinking about the race. Have fun chaps.

Sure, he does.

I don't now if I'm less tolerant with the years, but I wasn't so annoyed by Alonso complains nowadays and in the past (as, in early days, as a MSC fan, I used to be an anti-Fernando).
But time has changed!
And now, I'm annoyed by Vettel mad at other drivers for "not giving room", as, in my opinion, there was enough, or absolutely no way to try something. But again, it's doesn't change anything about racing skills.

In case anyone missed this from ellis.

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

The thing is, I cannot remember a single occasion where Vettel has 'moaned' about something other than what every other driver 'moans' about when it gets a bit hairy. 'He blocked me', 'he pushed me wide', 'he ran me out of road', etc. etc. If you're an F1 driver, and you know what the stewards are like (look at the atrocity they committed today wrt Grosjean), then of course you're going to make a big deal out of it, especially on a track like Hungary where passing is more difficult than usual even with DRS.

The only thing that comes close is the message to the team about Webber in Malaysia 'he is so slow, get him out of the way', and that was taken out of context. The problem there was that Webber was going too slowly for Red Bull's strategy to work - they had ordered Vettel to maintain a gap of three seconds after the first pitstop, but Mark was conserving too much and pushing Vettel back into the Mercedes. The team told Mark that he could go a bit faster, he did so, and there was no problem. At least until the second stops were over.

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

Good you noticed that, I missed it!

Ok then, here are a few more. Then I'm walking away because you're clearly trolling and missing the point that we're discussing...

- China 2006
- Valencia 2010
- Silverstone 2010

_________________
BTCC Pick Em's Champion 2010
Formula Fun Cup Champion 2013
http://www.the-fastlane.co.uk

It's because we have double standards regarding drivers. Several times over the last 1.5 seasons we've heard Kimi go 'what is he doing?' or something along those lines.

It works like this:
Kimi does something - YEAH LEGEND
Lewis does something - Guy should grow up
Seb/Fernando do something - whiney bitches!

_________________
Dan Wheldon | 1978 - 2011

Kimi doesn't really moan, he just gets annoyed at being told basic stuff he's already doing. Keep 10 lengths behind the SC? He already was. He's a world champion, he's not Grosjean.

Lewis was out of order in how he spoke to the team today IMO. He said the car was fine, stop bugging him. Well no, the car may not be fine. They clearly seen something on the data that warranted that change. It wasn't like they asked him for shits and giggles. I imagine when they get back to truck, Ross will say "Great win, but when we tell you to change something, you do it. You don't just refuse and have a go at the team on the radio". That was FAR worse than Vettels complaint, which in the heat of the moment looked justified, but wasn't. As Brundle said, you're coming over the crest of the hill, so your vision is reduced massively there. You can't see the edge of the track, or even the track ahead of you properly, and Kimi comes over on you - you shit yourself. You realise afterwards it was fine, but it didn't feel it from that particularly claustrophobic point on the circuit. Vettel has said he was wrong, and apologised to Kimi, so what's the problem? Lewis and Webber still haven't apologised for their comments this week.

Malaysia this year...

Even Felipe knows that Grosjean's penalty was bullshit.

_________________
Dan Wheldon ¦ 1978-2011
Marco Simoncelli ¦ 1987-2011
Jules Bianchi ¦ 1989-2015
Justin Wilson ¦ 1978-2015

Yeah, I know he's mad and I don't care. I do not care. I did not care then. I do not care now. I'm here to race him.

One incident doesn't mean much. Even 2 or 3 means nothing. EVERY driver has the usual complaints. What we're talking about is complaints outside of the norm. Kimi doesn't really have that.

Did he say something about it?