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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:57 pm 
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There are number of people who complain about certain drivers.
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De Cesaris fan wrote:
Albon's drive was good, but one driver who I thought drove really well and was barely mentioned, was Kvyat. Started two places below Albon, but was only 8 seconds behind him at the finish. Also finished 20 seconds ahead of Gasly, who had started higher up the grid.


Didn't like Gasly stop twice though? He was the first in, even before Vettel and I missed if he pitted again?

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:05 pm 
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I had goosebumps when everyone stood up and clapped their hands on the 19th lap. I know this happens often in football, never noticed it in autosport but it was a nice moment.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2019 10:57 pm 
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Ayrton S. wrote:
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Something I've been thinking. It's crazy that Leclerc is quite a melancholic guy (at least this is the impression that strikes me about him) whose trajectory is marked by dear people dying, and his maiden victory comes exactly in a race with grievance all around.


Yes, like Bakou 2017, when he won the race just after losing his father.


That and the fact that he was very close lifelong friends with Jules Bianchi.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:50 am 
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Scotty wrote:
I'm still staggered with Verstappen.

Remember when Vettel got given a huge fine for driving the Red Bull around on three wheels under safety car at Albert Park? That was 10 years and his team were fined big time (wasn't it like $50k?). Verstappen drives a broken car into a flat out corner, in-front of most of the field, at the site of a fatal accident only 24 hours before and doesn't get so much as a warning? Am I missing something? I can understand it not being that serious had the events of the day before occurring but surely this is worse than giving someone a shove in parc-ferme. He was so close to hitting an Alfa when we was careering towards the wall he could have launched that car into the stratosphere.


Just like when Webber drove into Eau Rouge without a front wing on lap one in 2004 and caused a huge accident. I don’t remember if he received a penalty or reprimand or anything. It’s the same(‘ish) situation as Verstappen. Dangerous and stupid driving.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:54 am 
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Webber hit Sato right at the crest and Sato spun in front of the field and collected a few other cars. Go to 0:56.



Verstappen is a fool. I will never be a fan in my life.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 9:58 am 
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That was a crash you could see coming from miles away. There were front wings flying off at La Source, yet nobody pulled away from the pack and everyone was going flat out into Eau Rouge. I was certain someone was going to careen off into somebody else at Raidillon, was not disappointed.

I believe that Max has grown up a lot recently, and I almost started to have some semblance of admirative respect for him. Yesterday it seems that his demons got the best of him, and you just saw a condensed reel of his ego and his entitled 'sore loser' side.

I still believe that he understands how that hurts his performance, he will get rid of that side eventually with experience, but he deserves a harsh penalty for that. An unhinged wheel is something you feel in a car, a lot. He knew he had damage, but he let his ego get the best of him and tried to lose minimum time, in complete disregard of safety (his own, the other drivers, the public).

But yeah, Vettel joins the track at a 150kph corner in an area with no grandstands, gets victory stripped from him. That's the real danger that the FIA is after.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:13 am 
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I'm not sure what Max could've done, yes his car was damaged but in the straight run down to Eau Rouge he wasn't aware exactly how damaged it was. It was only on the right turn to that's radillion actually that the problem became fully known and by then it was too late.
He was probably intending to use the runoff and straighten up the corner as much as possible anyway, but he didn't get the chance.
I guess people are a lot more on edge atm after what happened on Saturday but I don't think a driver trying to work out exactly how damaged his car is before the car answers that for him during his first right turn is a massive crime
Don't forget our perspective from the T-Cam is much better than Max's. And we've also had accidents that have flipped cars into a half flip in the past that hasn't damaged the car doing the launching, so it's not an automatic "my car must be damaged and I'm out of the race" feeling

As for the actual crash, I still think it's more 50/50. Max was racing the Racing Point and outbraking him and so was Kimi. They both tried to brake late to beat it but them Kimi turns to the apex as if the RP was the only possible car around without considering anyone else that could be up the inside. Definitely more 50/50 than people believe and the FIA obviously agree as they didn't even investigate it.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:54 am 
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Verstappen made a shit start and was right on the inside line where its all dirty and thought you could brake in the usual spot.

That sort of move is typical for Europeans on iRacing.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 1:13 pm 
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Stop press I find myself agreeing with @
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I'm not sure what Max was supposed to do considering the only part of his front wheels visible to him was the top of the tyres, "weave back and forth, should have been obvious", erm no, it wouldn't be for far too many reasons I don't have time to list here.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 2:01 pm 
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Scotty wrote:
kals wrote:
Scotty wrote:
I'm still staggered with Verstappen.

Remember when Vettel got given a huge fine for driving the Red Bull around on three wheels under safety car at Albert Park? That was 10 years and his team were fined big time (wasn't it like $50k?). Verstappen drives a broken car into a flat out corner, in-front of most of the field, at the site of a fatal accident only 24 hours before and doesn't get so much as a warning? Am I missing something? I can understand it not being that serious had the events of the day before occurring but surely this is worse than giving someone a shove in parc-ferme. He was so close to hitting an Alfa when we was careering towards the wall he could have launched that car into the stratosphere.


Just like when Webber drove into Eau Rouge without a front wing on lap one in 2004 and caused a huge accident. I don’t remember if he received a penalty or reprimand or anything. It’s the same(‘ish) situation as Verstappen. Dangerous and stupid driving.


Good example, but Webber had a problem that could be fixed, Verstappen's was terminal, he could please ignorance but must have known. He was achieving nothing continuing.

Pretty sure Webber hit a slow car from behind, which made no sense as he had no front wing, he was the slow car. I always thought that was a bizarre incident.


What Webber did was go into Eau Rouge at near racing speed, without a front wing. He then hit the back of Sato who was going around him at the top of the hill. Had he backed off and been more circumspect it would have been fine. But he didn’t / wasn’t.

Same goes for Verstappen. His steering was clearly off (according to the onboard) following the hit with Raikkonen, maybe he thought he had a puncture and could get back to the pits to repair. That’s fair. But he still went into Eau Rouge far too fast knowing the corner which would take the main load was damaged. Not smart.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 4:37 pm 
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codename_47 wrote:
I'm not sure what Max could've done, yes his car was damaged but in the straight run down to Eau Rouge he wasn't aware exactly how damaged it was. It was only on the right turn to that's radillion actually that the problem became fully known and by then it was too late.
He was probably intending to use the runoff and straighten up the corner as much as possible anyway, but he didn't get the chance.
I guess people are a lot more on edge atm after what happened on Saturday but I don't think a driver trying to work out exactly how damaged his car is before the car answers that for him during his first right turn is a massive crime
Don't forget our perspective from the T-Cam is much better than Max's. And we've also had accidents that have flipped cars into a half flip in the past that hasn't damaged the car doing the launching, so it's not an automatic "my car must be damaged and I'm out of the race" feeling

As for the actual crash, I still think it's more 50/50. Max was racing the Racing Point and outbraking him and so was Kimi. They both tried to brake late to beat it but them Kimi turns to the apex as if the RP was the only possible car around without considering anyone else that could be up the inside. Definitely more 50/50 than people believe and the FIA obviously agree as they didn't even investigate it.

quite what I was thinking too, both Verstappen perhaps not knowing how damaged the car was, as well as seeing the startcrash as 50/50.

As a neutral fan, I think some, especially Scotty, are theatrically harsh for Verstappen. He has improved massively, he has had a solid year, he has matured. But after one mistake, IMHO 50/50, suddenly he's retarded and deserves a race ban. That's a bit black and white.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:00 pm 
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I think the start crash is more of a 60-70 for Kimi than 50-50, to be frank. Don't think Kimi should have used full width of La Source on the first lap and that's an unnecessary risk taken by him - both drivers were overly optimistic there, but I think Kimi could have done more to avoid it and Verstappen's approach to the corner was okay. But Verstappen could have gone smoother on Eau Rouge indeed - He nearly collected Kimi right there with a car that was damaged, which was no secret. Whether this is on Max himself and his overly aggressive way or on Red Bull by not telling how the car was is another matter. But something wasn't done properly right there.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 7:54 pm 
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Kimi was already in the middle of the circuit and following Bottas into the corner, he didn’t do what Vettel did in 2016. Kimi had a car on his inside which meant Verstappen was in his blind spot. This was a racing incident but Verstappen’s fault.

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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:10 pm 
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Ian-S wrote:
Stop press I find myself agreeing with @
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I'm not sure what Max was supposed to do considering the only part of his front wheels visible to him was the top of the tyres, "weave back and forth, should have been obvious", erm no, it wouldn't be for far too many reasons I don't have time to list here.

You're a racing driver. You know that it's not just visual, you'll instantly feel if your suspension arm is acting funny, let alone incapable of holding a turn.

I'd be more understanding if he hadn't managed to get enough speed to completely miss the turn and bury himself in the tyrewall. That's a lot more optimism than the situation required. It's Eau Rouge and you're in a startpack, wishful thinking has no place here and it does feel like a move out of desperation and frustration from the missed start.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 10:23 pm 
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Coldtyre wrote:
Ian-S wrote:
Stop press I find myself agreeing with @
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I'm not sure what Max was supposed to do considering the only part of his front wheels visible to him was the top of the tyres, "weave back and forth, should have been obvious", erm no, it wouldn't be for far too many reasons I don't have time to list here.

You're a racing driver. You know that it's not just visual, you'll instantly feel if your suspension arm is acting funny, let alone incapable of holding a turn.

I'd be more understanding if he hadn't managed to get enough speed to completely miss the turn and bury himself in the tyrewall. That's a lot more optimism than the situation required. It's Eau Rouge and you're in a startpack, wishful thinking has no place here and it does feel like a move out of desperation and frustration from the missed start.


During the onboard replay they mention it wasn't driving straight the way he held the wheel. The way the tyre was wobbling before, you're going to feel it.


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PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2019 11:29 pm 
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So this being the FIA they have gone full retard and are now seemingly not penalizing drivers for incidents. This one was probably bordering on a racing incident, but Verstappen was trying to force through a gap that was always closing.

Did they even at least talk to Verstappen? Because on the onboards he actually did clip Kimi in Eua Rouge.

@0:40


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Gaara wrote:
Coldtyre wrote:
Ian-S wrote:
Stop press I find myself agreeing with @
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I'm not sure what Max was supposed to do considering the only part of his front wheels visible to him was the top of the tyres, "weave back and forth, should have been obvious", erm no, it wouldn't be for far too many reasons I don't have time to list here.

You're a racing driver. You know that it's not just visual, you'll instantly feel if your suspension arm is acting funny, let alone incapable of holding a turn.

I'd be more understanding if he hadn't managed to get enough speed to completely miss the turn and bury himself in the tyrewall. That's a lot more optimism than the situation required. It's Eau Rouge and you're in a startpack, wishful thinking has no place here and it does feel like a move out of desperation and frustration from the missed start.




During the onboard replay they mention it wasn't driving straight the way he held the wheel. The way the tyre was wobbling before, you're going to feel it.


Ex driver thanks, but it's my understanding you feel very little through power steering. It is easy for us to sit here in the comfort of our armchairs and say "but but but", it's completely different in the heat of the moment.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 03, 2019 4:13 pm 
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in the start his blood should be boiling in there, no room for thinking, just pushing

of course this could trigger consequences but in the moment he just wants to push

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 04, 2019 5:29 pm 
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There are number of people who complain about certain drivers.
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Random useless trivia - in his 305th GP start this is the first time Kimi Raikkonen finished in 16th place ;)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 05, 2019 7:42 am 
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Vassago wrote:
Random useless trivia - in his 305th GP start this is the first time Kimi Raikkonen finished in 16th place ;)

Finally got that monkey of his back. So happy for him!


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