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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:08 pm 
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Ferrari looked like they had a great car in dry conditions all weekend. That's probably why Vettel was so fast towards the end, when the track was drying. To be fair to him, he kept it on the track (mostly) when all of his rivals had spins or trips into the barriers. And he made short work of Stroll and Kyvat, which Bottas really should have done as well. I can only assume that the Mercedes is still the most difficult car to drive in traffic.

Part of me loves that Mercedes had a terrible race. The other part of me wishes that Bottas could have actually brought himself back into the title fight. I don't think Lewis will have another weekend like that for a while.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:14 pm 
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Gabriel wrote:
No one cares about Perez. He is the ultimate non-factor.


he crashed on purpose to make Strulovich believe that his son is actually better and then secure anothe contract

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 31, 2019 6:45 pm 
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De Cesaris fan wrote:
Part of me loves that Mercedes had a terrible race. The other part of me wishes that Bottas could have actually brought himself back into the title fight. I don't think Lewis will have another weekend like that for a while.


I erased from my mind the fact there is a title on the cards. I think we can have a very fun second half of the season if the teams accept Hamilton and Mercedes will win it and take more risks.

If Bottas keeps struggling, we may even have a very interesting battle for 2nd place in WDC. I think Verstappen would love to clinch it.

Bottas crash made me think we are closer to have Ocon in Mercedes. And having Verstappen, Leclerc and Ocon at the top 3 teams is something I find very exciting.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 10:39 am 
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EAS wrote:
De Cesaris fan wrote:
Part of me loves that Mercedes had a terrible race. The other part of me wishes that Bottas could have actually brought himself back into the title fight. I don't think Lewis will have another weekend like that for a while.


I erased from my mind the fact there is a title on the cards. I think we can have a very fun second half of the season if the teams accept Hamilton and Mercedes will win it and take more risks.

If Bottas keeps struggling, we may even have a very interesting battle for 2nd place in WDC. I think Verstappen would love to clinch it.

Bottas crash made me think we are closer to have Ocon in Mercedes. And having Verstappen, Leclerc and Ocon at the top 3 teams is something I find very exciting.


With Verstappen this strong and Bottas being Bottas (except for the first few races) its only a matter of time before Verstappen takes 2nd.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:40 pm 
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“Bottas being Bottas”, what does that even mean? In 11 races Bottas has finished on the podium 9 times with Verstappen only beating him twice, in Austria and Germany.

You’re making it seem like Bottas is completely hopeless.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:42 pm 
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kals wrote:

You’re making it seem like Bottas is completely hopeless.


Sure he's much better than being hopeless. It' just that he's disappointing compared to how he performed at the beginning of the season. Giving people hope for a championship fight. Which is now gone. And therefore hopeless.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 1:48 pm 
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Beezle wrote:
kals wrote:

You’re making it seem like Bottas is completely hopeless.


Sure he's much better than being hopeless. It' just that he's disappointing compared to how he performed at the beginning of the season. Giving people hope for a championship fight. Which is now gone. And therefore hopeless.


I’d say that if anyone thought that Bottas was a true challenger for the title, then it’s your expectations that were misaligned rather than Bottas’ performances.

I’m a big fan of Bottas but I’m realistic as to his actual chances against Lewis.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:05 pm 
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we must also see if it's of Mercedes interest to see Bottas fighting with Lewis or just keep him 2nd as he must stay to grab max constructor points

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 4:46 pm 
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kals wrote:
“Bottas being Bottas”, what does that even mean? In 11 races Bottas has finished on the podium 9 times with Verstappen only beating him twice, in Austria and Germany.

You’re making it seem like Bottas is completely hopeless.


There are many ways to see that. He's beaten Verstappen more often than not but he's closer to Verstappen rather than to Hamilton in WDC.

Also, it intrigues me how poor performances in the top teams are so poorly punished. Leclerc was 0.6 slower than Vettel and that was still enough for a P3 in quali. Bottas was 30 seconds behind Hamilton in Bahrain and that ended up enough for a P2 in the race - imagine being beaten by a teammate by 30 seconds in a middle-pack team, that would mean a huge deficit in most of the cases. So, in some cases, a podium finish hides the fact a driver had a poor race because there wasn't much competition around.

Bottas is a driver who has some glimpses of brilliance. But he doesn't seem to sustain the top of his game trough a whole season. A good Mercedes and somewhat hopeless drivers seem enough to keep him consistently on the podium.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 5:39 pm 
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EAS wrote:
kals wrote:
“Bottas being Bottas”, what does that even mean? In 11 races Bottas has finished on the podium 9 times with Verstappen only beating him twice, in Austria and Germany.

You’re making it seem like Bottas is completely hopeless.


There are many ways to see that. He's beaten Verstappen more often than not but he's closer to Verstappen rather than to Hamilton in WDC.


In the first 11 races the top 5 finishing positions have been occupied by the same 5 drivers (Hamilton, Bottas, Verstappen, Vettel and Leclerc) 8 times. The only times someone else penetrated that top 5 stranglehold was Monaco (Leclerc retirement, Gasly 5th), Silverstone (Vettel 16th, Gasly 4th) and Hockenheim. Verstappen has not failed to score in 2019, Bottas' crash at Hockenheim means he has. That's why the gap looks so close.

EAS wrote:
Also, it intrigues me how poor performances in the top teams are so poorly punished. Leclerc was 0.6 slower than Vettel and that was still enough for a P3 in quali. Bottas was 30 seconds behind Hamilton in Bahrain and that ended up enough for a P2 in the race - imagine being beaten by a teammate by 30 seconds in a middle-pack team, that would mean a huge deficit in most of the cases. So, in some cases, a podium finish hides the fact a driver had a poor race because there wasn't much competition around.


None of this is new. Look back at F1 history and you'll see big performance gaps between teams and teammates. Small(er) performance gaps is something that really only emerged from the early 2000s.

EAS wrote:
Bottas is a driver who has some glimpses of brilliance. But he doesn't seem to sustain the top of his game trough a whole season. A good Mercedes and somewhat hopeless drivers seem enough to keep him consistently on the podium.


Is Bottas a top driver? Yes. Is he a F1 great? Unlikely. Putting it another way, Bottas is today's Gerhard Berger. A phenomenal driver that is extremely quick and very talented, can be great on his day, but unlikely to be a world champion. While team mate to Senna, Berger would grab poles and lead races but more often that not fall back. He could not sustain the challenge against Senna across the season. And before anyone criticizes my comparison, I will state that I'm not suggesting that because Bottas = Berger then Hamilton = Senna.

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PostPosted: Thu Aug 01, 2019 6:19 pm 
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kals wrote:
None of this is new. Look back at F1 history and you'll see big performance gaps between teams and teammates. Small(er) performance gaps is something that really only emerged from the early 2000s.


Yes. It was not uncommon to Senna beating Prost in quali by 1 or 2 seconds. And it is unlikely we'll see such a gap between teammates. But my point is other. My point is: the same gap of performance means a way different gap of positions as we have a pack of 3 teams and then a pack of 6 other teams. So, sometimes a gap that is enough to take a driver to podium, could mean a 10 positions gap in smaller teams. So, poor performances in the top teams end up no seeming to bad, unless you're Pierre Gasly. Of course, the benchmarks at the top teams are different too.

kals wrote:
Is Bottas a top driver? Yes. Is he a F1 great? Unlikely. Putting it another way, Bottas is today's Gerhard Berger. A phenomenal driver that is extremely quick and very talented, can be great on his day, but unlikely to be a world champion. While team mate to Senna, Berger would grab poles and lead races but more often that not fall back. He could not sustain the challenge against Senna across the season. And before anyone criticizes my comparison, I will state that I'm not suggesting that because Bottas = Berger then Hamilton = Senna.


I like this comparison of Bottas and Berger. The comparison I had in mind was with Fisichella - a driver who could be very fast on his right day, but his right days were more likely to be on Tuesdays than Sundays.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:40 am 
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Bottas has to put it bluntly been quite underwhelming these last 2 years. The reason why a few of us are questioning him is the fact that he hasn't sustained more pressure on Hamilton. On some occasions he has been here or there abouts, indeed ahead, but sustained pressure? No. Yes Hamilton is one of the greats, but with the cars at his disposal he should be able to be closer to Hamilton. And with a highly rated young guy just sitting in the wings, he needs to up his game big time.

Do I expect Bottas to beat Hamilton all the time, no I don't, but I expect him to give him a run for his money, and so far he has failed to deliver that, nor does he look like it.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 02, 2019 1:59 am 
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Bottas wasn’t underwhelming in 2018 unless you just look at the results and ignore the context behind how they were achieved.

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