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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:23 pm 
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Obviously because Vettel was penalised pretty quickly.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:27 pm 
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I don't even know what to think. Another penalty would be terrible for F1. No penalty turns a blind eye to an unfair move. I would call it fair if LeClerc was only halfway alongside Max, but they were basically level. You also have the previous lap where Max left space and we had a great, fair battle.

I wouldn't want to be the stewards...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:30 pm 
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Need to separate the emotions from this and forget about the fact that this was for the lead after a really boring race with a lot of eyes/attention on this. How would they evaluate the move if it was between a pair of backmarkers? I'm sure the stewards don't want to get into a situation where they set a precedent for condoning such types of moves...


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:32 pm 
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Schumifan wrote:
Coldtyre wrote:
Everyone stop the bitterness. Racing for first place is ruthless. You don't leave the door open and expect to get away with it. Leclerc knows that. He lost that corner. Deal with it.

You can't expect an F1 driver to sit on their ass and be kind to the leader a couple laps from the finish. Y'all wanted racing, you got racing and now we're still hearing whining for some reason.

Congrats to the deserving driver and deserving team for this victory.


To be clear I enjoyed the race overall and obviously I'd take this any day of the week over last Sunday's race. But it's annoyed me for a while (and clearly I'm not the only one) that pushing other drivers off the road has become acceptable. Ruthless is fine, but there's a difference between ruthless and plain pushing people off. Montoya's move on Schumacher at Brazil 2001 is a great example of ruthless but fair imo (1:47 in this video):



Don't you think a move like that is more impressive? Anyone can chuck it down the inside and push the other driver off at the exit. I want to see a bit more skill and finesse.

Anyway. I don't even want to see a penalty. Just not a fan of this kind of racing. Every time this comes up I make the same point - if this was Monaco and there was a barrier there, Verstappen would be out of the race and we'd be laughing at him.

You're making fair points, however in that era there wasn't that entitlment to space that drivers want to have currently even after their front wheel is behind. They used to accept losing the corner. I am equally annoyed with that sense of entitlment. If you want to have that space, wrestle for it. Keep ahead. Turn in earl, like Montoya did against Raikkonnen at Hockenheim hairpin 2002. Hug the inside at braking.

There should not be an expectation that you just keep the outside and nobody will use the space to get ahead of you and dictate the racing line.

I agree it's on the fence, hence why it is within my limit for fairness but not yours, and I'm fine with that, but a driver's job is to defend from this sort of situation and Charles failed at it leaving him vulnerable.

What we should all be agreeing on though, and I'm afraid not everyone agrees here, is that stewards have no business investigating this sort of manoeuver.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:38 pm 
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This is shit if they give him penalty, he left door open and its over, look at Hamilton in last lap. He didnt leave the door open and Vettel still passed him.
Fucking cover the inside line and at least try. Go down with dignity, at least you tried, and not once he gets close wave the white flag.
It nevers happens to me in an online race, even if i know my tyres are very bad. But i still will cover the inside line.
And that little banging thats racing, if you cant do that then f... this sport then.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 4:53 pm 
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Coldtyre wrote:
You're making fair points, however in that era there wasn't that entitlment to space that drivers want to have currently even after their front wheel is behind. They used to accept losing the corner. I am equally annoyed with that sense of entitlment. If you want to have that space, wrestle for it. Keep ahead. Turn in earl, like Montoya did against Raikkonnen at Hockenheim hairpin 2002. Hug the inside at braking.

There should not be an expectation that you just keep the outside and nobody will use the space to get ahead of you and dictate the racing line.

I agree it's on the fence, hence why it is within my limit for fairness but not yours, and I'm fine with that, but a driver's job is to defend from this sort of situation and Charles failed at it leaving him vulnerable.

What we should all be agreeing on though, and I'm afraid not everyone agrees here, is that stewards have no business investigating this sort of manoeuver.


I must admit I don't remember drivers being ok with losing the corner and just accepting it, but tbh my memory isn't that great. I've always been of the belief that if a car is alongside you - and Leclerc was way up alongside Verstappen through the whole corner - they have the right to be there and you have to leave them space. I don't agree with this whole dictating the racing line thing. Taking the racing line regardless of who's around you is like doing hot laps against a ghost car.

I do agree with your other points though. Leclerc put himself in a bad position by failing to defend the inside. And less steward involvement is always a good thing - it doesn't look like this kind of racing is going away any time soon so we may as well let the drivers sort it out amongst themselves.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:13 pm 
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Definitely not an easy decision for the stewards...

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:20 pm 
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Coldtyre wrote:
Racing for first place is ruthless.


Totally agree. And this could have been said two races ago too when Vettel did squeeze Hamilton in Canada. But Vettel is too dumb for us to think 'ruthless' suits for him.

Don't get me wrong. I'm bitter if there is no penalty here because this exposes a huge inconsistency from the stewards - it was said Hamilton had to do an evasive manoeuvre in Canada, today Leclerc was evaded from the track today and this cost his chance of defending the position. But I would be twice bitter if the stewards decided to be consistent today and ruin the second battle for the lead in 3 races.

At the same time this situation inevitably makes me bitter, it makes me satisfied. Because it exposes the poor decisions made by the stewards and urges them to rethink their job.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:22 pm 
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Now, Leclerc had one set of hard tyres that he used in practice and race. He had to defend from Verstappen with tyres 9 laps fresher.

Another poor decision from Ferrari.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:47 pm 
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Leclerc also almost turned into max. No penalty for me.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 5:48 pm 
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racing for first has been so uncommon in today's F1 that the stewards believe it is illegal to do it

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Motorsports trend for 2024: everything is a bad taste joke now


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:05 pm 
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In other news, DOTD is...... Robert Kubica


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:13 pm 
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Wait what

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ALPINE SKIING CRASHES SPREADSHEET


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:23 pm 
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give the 25 points for him (but not for Williams)

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:39 pm 
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I don't like that their giving this decision the big build-up. This is making VAR look slick and sensible


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:48 pm 
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No further action. Phew

You may argue when ready


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:49 pm 
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The right decision. But makes Vettel's penalty look even more ridiculous


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:49 pm 
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Now they just need to give Vettel back his win.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 6:58 pm 
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Schumifan wrote:
The right decision. But makes Vettel's penalty look even more ridiculous



Well vettel made an error and left the track. Verstappen made a rough pass. Not completely the same


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 30, 2019 7:04 pm 
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I like how with everything in F1, in the end the joke is always on Vettel


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