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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:36 am 
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As per Vettel reaction after the race, I think that's totally okay. He felt he had a victory stripped from him and let his frustration clear. It's a bit like when Hamilton lost Monaco in 2015 and made no effort to hide his frustration. That's what we want at the end of the day: drivers who are thirsty for a win and who will feel when they don't get and feel they deserve.

Also, he is still a leader for Ferrari and has to show to the team he wants to win so badly.

And if you have problems with drivers or anyone showing their emotions, I'd recommend finding a good oncologist soon.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:43 am 
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Saw a reddit post referring to today's incident as F1's version of the Montreal Screwjob.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 5:36 am 
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mclaren2008 wrote:
Soul Reaver wrote:
Biggest bullshit since Senna vs Prost in 89.


Don't remember Spa 2008?



This one is worse imho, by a little margin, but worse. That one was more devastating but imho it also felt a little more, not much more, just a tad bit more righteous. But it's right there. Because it killed one of the best finishes in history, that totally didn't needed that.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:15 am 
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Jeff wrote:
Saw a reddit post referring to today's incident as F1's version of the Montreal Screwjob.

pretty much

first damn thing I thought about honestly

-

For my opinion on the finish in today's F1 race. Please refer to this excerpt of Gilles Villeneuve's interview on the drivers strike at Kyalami / 1982

“The fans aren't here to see politicians and manipulators.”


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:32 am 
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"Seb screwed Seb"
Image

- FIA in France in two weeks, probably.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:45 am 
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what Grosjean did at the end of the first corner was far worse, far more dangerous, avoiding first turn after an incident and returning to the track with a whole bunch of cars racing. Watch the onboard reply of his start.

FAR FAR FAR MORE DANGEROUS!


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:50 am 
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aerogi wrote:
what Grosjean did at the end of the first corner was far worse, far more dangerous, avoiding first turn after an incident and returning to the track with a whole bunch of cars racing. Watch the onboard reply of his start.

FAR FAR FAR MORE DANGEROUS!


How he didn't actually clip anyone was just pure luck.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 12:27 pm 
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EAS wrote:
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If Vettel can't make up a 5 second gap Liberty are about to have a PR nightmare on their hands
I feel sorry for Liberty always having to cover the mess FIA and the teams keep doing.


Not a chance. Liberty will love the attention this situation has created and don't be surprised to see them milk this as much as they can.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:19 pm 
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There are number of people who complain about certain drivers.
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Soul Reaver wrote:
Vassago wrote:
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Nah, the stewards are making Ferrari inept on this one. BIG TIME. Why they don't just handle the trophy to Hamilton already, for the championship and all the remaining races. Cause competition is NOT what they wanna see.

Neither prestige for the sport.


Ferrari has ALL THE RIGHS to appeal on this one. Biggest bullshit since Senna vs Prost in 89.


Now you know how I felt in 2002. Please enjoy the moment :wave:



Nice, I'm a Brazillian, I saw Barrichello that year and Massa in 2010, and subsequent years have all his motivation killed by team orders or plain right biased strategy. But enough is enough for Mercedes dominance.

Horner was right when he said that they were always changing the rules to hold Red Bull, and now it's not the same. Since 2017 it was more a Ferrari loss than Mercedes winning, also a beautiful nice job of Hamilton and Mercedes of fighting back and taking all they could get even when they start the season with the worse car, really well deserved. But this time it really was just a racing deal and they transformed into this mess.

Vettel loss a lot of races due to his mistakes, but this wasn't one of them. He also was a huge crybaby in a lot of those times, but this time wasn't one of those.

Changing the rules to hold Mercedes ain't really fair, but neither was this sporting decision.


If you were a Barrichello fan they you should exactly understand what "we don't like competition" means instead of ranting about FIA stewards :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 1:32 pm 
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Jeff wrote:
Saw a reddit post referring to today's incident as F1's version of the Montreal Screwjob.
Love it!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:17 pm 
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There are number of people who complain about certain drivers.
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More like another Leclerc Screwjob. They "forgot" to tell him about Vettel's penalty :lol:

https://www.espn.co.uk/f1/story/_/id/26 ... el-penalty

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:26 pm 
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I can even see FIA taking this race to a whole new level by scrapping all races that doesn't have "proper runoffs" because is "causing too much polemics"

plus let's check the Mercedes record after 2014

-big political dominance that translates on track
-team orders when is not necessary
-evil mind hungry for power behind all that, and prompting FIA to kneejerk responses

oh yeah, Mercedes is domination is way worse than those of Red Bull and Ferrari from early 00's

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:39 pm 
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Toto running for FIA presidency after his Mercedes run makes sense. The guy is a master politician on how to spin things to benefit his position.


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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:41 pm 
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Liberty wants him to replace Chase Carey, is the dawn of the F1 darkest age

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 11:12 pm 
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Soul Reaver wrote:
mclaren2008 wrote:
Soul Reaver wrote:
Biggest bullshit since Senna vs Prost in 89.


Don't remember Spa 2008?



This one is worse imho, by a little margin, but worse. That one was more devastating but imho it also felt a little more, not much more, just a tad bit more righteous. But it's right there. Because it killed one of the best finishes in history, that totally didn't needed that.



I'd say 2008 was a little worse as it came in the middle of a championship battle and the race was a brilliant battle with the leaders changing positions 3 times a lap in wet conditions and the penalty screws all that

A Ferrari win was direly needed this year but as much as it sucks, it's not changing the direction of the championship even at this early stage
(Though I do find all the conspiracy theories a bit ott, the fia and FOM would surely love to market a Ferrari win more so they can pretend theres some kind of championship interest left in 2019....they wouldn't deliberately screw that to give us yet another Mercedes win)

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:41 am 
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Massa lost several races up to that point due to Ferrari fucking up his strategy. It was nice to him having a good break for a change on that cursed year. That's why.

Both are big ones anyway.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:44 am 
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Vassago wrote:

If you were a Barrichello fan they you should exactly understand what "we don't like competition" means instead of ranting about FIA stewards :lol:



I'd say Ferrari got what they deserved with all the negative press afterwards. And by reading all the 50's era GPs and how many times the second driver had to actually hand the car over for the first driver finish the race with it and get half points for second place - like once every 3 races there was something like it - I'm ok with team orders. But yeah, I prefer the Mercedes rules, where they can do all but squeeze the other out of the track.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 9:17 am 
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https://www.autosport.com/f1/news/14399 ... y-decision

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A second steering wheel input from Sebastian Vettel after he regained control of his Ferrari Formula 1 car was pivotal in his Canadian Grand Prix penalty, Autosport has learned.

The Montreal F1 stewards ruled that Vettel had rejoined the track in an unsafe manner following his error at the first chicane with 22 laps to go and forced Lewis Hamilton off the circuit.

The five-second penalty imposed for the incident meant Vettel lost what would have been his and Ferrari's first win of the 2019 F1 season to Hamilton.

Vettel was adamant he had done nothing wrong, and said he had been powerless in the situation because his car was out of control after running over the grass.

But while it is clear from on board footage that Vettel was battling to control his car as he bounced off the grass onto the circuit again, it is understood that the stewards' decision was based on Vettel's actions at the point he had effectively recovered from the incident.

The stewards examined slow motion footage of Vettel's actions from the moment that he had regained control and started steering his car - and felt the evidence showed that he could have made different choices that would have been within the rules.

The footage clearly captures Vettel correcting an oversteer moment as he rejoins the track - which is shown by a sharp steering wheel movement to the right.

Shortly after that, Vettel has sorted the oversteer and begins steering to the left to follow the direction of the circuit - suggesting he is now under control.

But a split moment later, rather than keeping to the left, Vettel is shown to release the steering wheel - which allows his car to drift to the right, cutting off the route that Hamilton would have taken had he had clear space.


The movement to straighten the wheel, which put the Ferrari into the path of Hamilton's Mercedes, is believed to be key to the unanimous decision by the stewards to punish Vettel.

The stewards also used an extra CCTV camera view of the incident, which was not broadcast on the international television feed, showing Vettel moving his head and looking in the mirrors to see Hamilton was during the moments when he was releasing the wheel to the right.

On board footage of the Vettel incident also shows his head turning towards the mirrors in the moment when he is drifting out - suggesting he knew where Hamilton was.

Had Vettel kept his car tight to the left once he had regained control, then there was likely enough room to have allowed Hamilton through on the right - in which case the matter would almost certainly not have been investigated.

The fact that telemetry data showed Hamilton had to brake to avoid the collision with Vettel indicated how the Mercedes driver was caught out by his rival's actions.



Precedent for the decision to punish Vettel for both rejoining the track in an unsafe manner and forcing a rival off the track was made last year in Japan when Max Verstappen was hit with a five-second penalty for a collision with Kimi Raikkonen at the chicane.

Verstappen had run wide at the chicane on the first lap of the race and rejoined in an aggressive manner, pushing Raikkonen wide on the exit.

At the time, the late F1 race director Charlie Whiting said: "You are required to rejoin safely and Kimi was there and [Verstappen was] pushing him off the track. So I think that was a fairly straightforward one for the stewards."



This is basically what I said earlier. It looked like he steered into Hamilton's path. That doesn't automatically mean he did but the suggestion of it is there and that is what caused the penalty.

Also, IMHO, Vettel should have focused on the remaining laps and try to get away from Hamilton instead of crying on the radio for the remainder of the race.
I think, if he turned all his anger into focus, he could have pulled it off and it would have been one of his greatest victories.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 12:20 pm 
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Everything in that quote is correct, and still: fuck you FIA.

Sometimes, you have to let things slip. Sometimes you have to refrain from analyzing an onboard image by image. Common sense, and the spirit of racing should prevail. This sort of grey area rulings is when they should learn to just not intervene, for the benefit of spectacle and racing as a whole.

I'm saying this while I couldn't give less fucks about who wins between those two. But I know for sure that this is not the kind of race interference I want to see from race direction, and the crowd's reaction has shown that nobody else does.

Kudos to Vettel for being vocal about the decision, and kudos to Hamilton for trying to get it on track as it should be. They deserved to have a proper fight, and a better finish ceremony than the shit-show we've been given instead.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 1:45 pm 
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What is comes down to is that Vettel cracked under pressure again

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