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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:03 am 
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ellis wrote:
micha wrote:
James B wrote:
Bernie's demise, be it in a coffin or a police van, will be huge - he is the one unifying force left


Or is he the ballast that keeps F1 down and in the last century?

Bernie's demise can go both ways IMHO. Either you are right and it marks the end of F1 or it catapults F1 back to the front with a modern strong individual or team of promoters.


F1 is in the last century? Is that based on anything, or made up to justify the Bernie hatred?

Lot of arse, frankly. When Bernie is gone, watch Silverstone and Spa be dropped for 3 more races in Abu Dhabi.


Yeah because their embracement of YouTube, Twitter and Facebook and all those other social media years ago is great.
There is a lot to be won in that department.

A fresh wind could do wonders for F1.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:05 am 
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If the entire anti-Bernie argument is based on the lack of social media, then I think we're kinda losing sight of the big, massive, huge, overwhelming job that he and FOM actually do...


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:17 am 
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ellis wrote:
If the entire anti-Bernie argument is based on the lack of social media, then I think we're kinda losing sight of the big, massive, huge, overwhelming job that he and FOM actually do...



and taking F1 places that have no real connection with racing in general but pay good money of which he gets a big share. Ignoring contracts. I've heard too many times in the past that Spa, for example signed a new deal for several years just to get threatened to get axed the next year unless they pay more money.

There is no doubt he has done great things for F1 but saying F1 is doomed once he's gone is like saying F1 will blossom if he's gone.

It all depends on who will replace him. It can go either way. And as Horner said last weekend, the teams are there because they love to race. It's not that they're here because they love Bernie.

But if you want my personal opinion. If he's replaced by the right person or persons, F1 could grow to new heights.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:21 am 
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You've heard many times Spa is getting dropped unless they pay more money? Bernie is the promoter of Spa. He is the one responsible for keeping F1 in Spa.

And the teams are in F1 because they love to race? No they aren't. They're there to sell stuff. Mercedes even print big bloody adverts after every win, because that's what it is to them - it's advertising. Is that bad? No. But they sure as hell aren't there to race. The day it isn't good for Red Bull, they'll leave. Did nobody learn anything from Honda, Toyota, Jaguar, BMW?

He will not be replaced by one person. He will be replaced by an entire board, who do not care about keeping Spa on the calender for example.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:32 am 
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ellis wrote:
You've heard many times Spa is getting dropped unless they pay more money? Bernie is the promoter of Spa. He is the one responsible for keeping F1 in Spa.

And the teams are in F1 because they love to race? No they aren't. They're there to sell stuff. Mercedes even print big bloody adverts after every win, because that's what it is to them - it's advertising. Is that bad? No. But they sure as hell aren't there to race. The day it isn't good for Red Bull, they'll leave. Did nobody learn anything from Honda, Toyota, Jaguar, BMW?

He will not be replaced by one person. He will be replaced by an entire board, who do not care about keeping Spa on the calender for example.



In recent years he is the promoter. Hasn't always been the promoter.

And sure, they're in it to sell products but you also heard Horner speak. The point is, they're not here because of Bernie and they will not leave because Bernie is gone.

Oh and why is he getting replaced by a board? Because he sold it to CVC.
If he truly has the best interest in F1 and not his wallet, he buys it back before it's too late.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:37 am 
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He's been the promoter for about a decade. He is responsible for Spa being on the calender.

It doesn't matter if the teams are there for Bernie or not. What Horner said is fundamentally untrue - they are not there because they love to race. Maybe the mechanics and drivers are, but the people who actually control these teams are not. They will leave the day it becomes a financial blackhole and doesn't produce the advertising they want. The last 10 years should be the ultimate proof that that is 100% the case, and always will be in this sort of racing. They will leave at the drop of a hat.

If by "grow to new heights" you mean some YouTube videos and hashtags on Twitter, then we have very different meanings of new heights. F1 is already immensely popular and has extreme exposure. I'm failing to see what new heights there could be.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:49 am 
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The Spa story is late 90s. It obviously got more attention in the Netherlands as it was the closest thing to a Dutch GP and Verstappen was still kinda hot over here.

you can capture a new group of fans and bring in new sponsors because of this new generation if you embrace current social media. The fact that McLaren lacks a title sponsor speaks for itself. Sauber is almost empty and while people say they have different deals with sponsors they do seem to struggle.

It doesn't help either that Bernie was so vocal about the new engine. Either he should have used his power long before and stop the move or get behind it.

You see it here as well. Most of us are longtime F1 fans. Some since the 80's or sooner. But in recent year they just get fed up with things. A fresh wind might spark that fire inside of us all again.
Or maybe we're just all becoming old farts that hate everything and only reminisce of the old days.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:49 am 
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micha wrote:
You see it here as well. Most of us are longtime F1 fans. Some since the 80's or sooner. But in recent year they just get fed up with things. A fresh wind might spark that fire inside of us all again.
Or maybe we're just all becoming old farts that hate everything and only reminisce of the old days.


lol. Sorry, but F1 is more exciting than it's ever been. If someone is bored of it in its current state but some Facebook posts will solve it then that's not F1s problem.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:03 pm 
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Bernie supposedly wants to cancel the standing restarts after SC.

Yay for Bernie.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:16 pm 
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Mika Kimi wrote:
Bernie supposedly wants to cancel the standing restarts after SC.


and then he demands to use trackside water sprinklers during the race

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:33 pm 
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Bernie says: THINK before you make stupid rule changes that no one wants.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:36 pm 
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Yesterday

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115185

Today

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/115201

*popcorn*

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:43 pm 
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Yeah I read those and was going to post them. It is nothing more than technicalities.

- Caterham F1 is the team
- Company ABC 1 (can't remember the name) is the license holder
- 40 x people haven't been paid by Caterham F1 but those people were not employed by Caterham F1, instead were officially subcontractors to the license holder - but still, Caterham F1 haven't paid the subcontractors via the third party company they officially work for
- The actual staff employed by Caterham F1 have all received up to date pay

It is all smoke and mirrors to me, unless someone wants to tell me I've got it all wrong.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 7:49 pm 
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So they fired everyone that was could be laid of easily without looking at how they perform? Gotta love Kolles and his (always) shitty teams.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:07 pm 
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Hang on, how is this immediately Kolles' fault? He's been employed to do a job and is doing that job. He's just the messenger for the new owners. You should aim your anger at Fernandez for getting the team all screwed up in the first place.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:18 pm 
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Fish88 wrote:
So they fired everyone that was could be laid of easily without looking at how they perform? Gotta love Kolles and his (always) shitty teams.


There's a theory going around (and to me it sounds plausible, but I don't know how plausible) that Gasgoyne basically stuffed Caterham with as many of his out-of-work disciples as he could find and therefore, even once he was gone, the rot still propagated itself.

What is fact is that Caterham had a staff of 300, which is way too many for a team of their size and half of them weren't doing much.

Kolles is doing what Kolles does best and that is trying to run an F1 team on a budget consisting of a packet of Wotsits and an I.O.U. printed on an A3 piece of paper. There was a pretty decent article\interview in Autosport with him about the last year of HRT and what it was taking for the team to keep going.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:16 pm 
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Ah ok thx that would explain a lot more, that does sound like Gascoyne.

Although still not a fan of Kolles. Remember how he was trying to blackmail Toto Wolff. That guy always has always something shady around him. His teams are always half arse efforts (DTM/Le Mans/F1). Looks to me like Albers is just the spokesman and Kolles is doing all the work behind the scenes.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 9:45 pm 
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kals wrote:
Yeah I read those and was going to post them. It is nothing more than technicalities.

- Caterham F1 is the team
- Company ABC 1 (can't remember the name) is the license holder
- 40 x people haven't been paid by Caterham F1 but those people were not employed by Caterham F1, instead were officially subcontractors to the license holder - but still, Caterham F1 haven't paid the subcontractors via the third party company they officially work for
- The actual staff employed by Caterham F1 have all received up to date pay

It is all smoke and mirrors to me, unless someone wants to tell me I've got it all wrong.


So basically what they are saying is the allegations are mostly correct, they just got the company name wrong.

The bit about the Caterham F1 employees being paid is immaterial, sounds like that whole second piece was written by a lawyer, I hate lawyers.


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 29, 2014 10:07 pm 
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Correct Ian, hence my remark about smoke and mirrors. At the end of the day the employees have not been paid and regardless of who the end payment comes from, the money originates from the Caterham F1 team.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:26 am 
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Scotty wrote:
When I started watching F1, and grew up with it from 2002, through to around 2007 only have, collectively, around 7-8 races which were really exciting. This year alone, I'd call 5-6 races exciting, and we are only half way home. Only 2-3 races were disappointing, and still they were miles better than a typical 2004 era boring race.

Yes the cars have lost their sound, that makes them great. But there is no doubt the racing has improved by a mile. DRS and even KERS maybe gimmicks, but it's made F1 awesome.


You are forgetting that drivers used to be allowed to do whatever they wanted on track because they respected each other. Now, you can't block an opponent, and you don't even have to really work hard to make passes with DRS. There is still a lot of great overtakes, don't get me wrong, but there are serious problems that affect even the casual fan. For one, the cars are ugly. Race cars shouldn't be ugly. When NASCAR stopped racing boxes with wings, people suddenly seemed more interested in it. (I know I was) There's a reason Indycar didn't choose to run the Deltawing and it has nothing to do with economics. Secondly, the cars are not powerful or mechanically impressive of their own accord. The engines have little to no character, and not enough power. They are shoehorning hybrid/regen technology into purpose built race cars. This is Formula One, not endurance racing. Nothing on a Formula One car will ever trickle down to streetcars. They don't use regular brakes, they don't use reasonable tires, and their hybrid technology is purpose-built to do one thing and that's win races. Therefore, the sport is less pure in my honest opinion. At least back in 1998-2007, drivers had to keep it on track. They had to work hard to set up and complete a pass. And nobody pretended that these cars are some kind of direct analog with street machinery.


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