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Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018
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Author:  gkmotorsport [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

codename_47 wrote:
Patrick Head came out with the data telemetry at some point early in that season that proved they weren't braking any earlier than any other car. If i find the time later on I'll try and wade through old articles to find the one where he said that.


Autosport wrote:
Williams has discounted suggestions that it is to blame for the high number of rear-end collisions involving its cars.

Juan Pablo Montoya was taken out from the lead of the Brazilian Grand Prix by Jos Verstappen's Arrows, which he had just lapped, while team mate Ralf Schumacher was rammed from behind by Ferrari's Rubens Barrichello at the same spot early in the race. Schumacher's car was also rear-ended by Jacques Villeneuve's BAR in the Australian Grand Prix, an accident which resulted in the death of a spectator marshal.

According to Williams's chief operations engineer, Sam Michael, there is nothing special about its braking system or the slipstream that the car gives.

"We've looked at all the data, checked the braking distances, the tyre differences, our top speeds relative to the others to try and find a reason," he said. "But there's no consistent pattern. We've just got to put it down to coincidence and bad luck.

"We've been hit by three different drivers and I can't put anything down to consistent reasons. I know there's been talk that maybe our slipstream is pulling people in, because of our top speed, but it's not to the level where it would make a difference.

"We've looked at the brakes, too, and it can't be that because Juan Pablo got past Michael [Schumacher] from quite a distance back in Brazil, and Ralf overtook 10 cars in 30 laps. We don't think it's a problem," added Michael.

Michael Schumacher, who followed Montoya for 25 laps around Interlagos, said the Williams didn't have a noticeable advantage under braking.

"Maybe I wasn't close enough to get a tow, but I didn't notice anything special," said the reigning world champion. "For me it's more a question of the men involved rather than some system."

Arrows, meanwhile, has withdrawn its appeal over the US$15,000 penalty handed to Verstappen for the Interlagos incident with Montoya.

Author:  gd49 [ Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Think I'm in the minority here that Verstappens post race actions were not acceptable. I think there's a difference between getting aggressive straight after an incident, compared to what Verstappen did when he'd had well over 30min to calm down and still made it physical. Can only assume the stewards didn't see his post race interview where he showed no remorse and thought shoving Ocon was fine, off that I think he deserved a much harsher punishment

Sent from my P027 using Tapatalk

Author:  Philthy82 [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Apparently Gasly also threw a hissyfit when asked to let his teammate by, and flat refused to: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... s/3212813/

Next year at Red Bull is going to be some great reality TV.

Author:  amq55 [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Philthy82 wrote:
Apparently Gasly also threw a hissyfit when asked to let his teammate by, and flat refused to: https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/gasl ... s/3212813/

Next year at Red Bull is going to be some great reality TV.

2:25 in this video, which also features Verstappen being told that Ocon was on fresh rubber.


Author:  Schumifan [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 9:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Verstappen only has himself to blame for losing that race - doesn't matter how stupid you think Ocon's move was, it was legal, and Verstappen had nothing to gain from defending against it. He knew Ocon was there, I mean he even took a defensive line into turn 1, so the fact he turned across his nose in turn 2 and acted all oblivious baffles me. If he'd let Ocon go he had that race wrapped up.

Enjoying all the drama though. "Public service" for that shove, which F1 have posted all over their social media channels, is stupid as shit.

Author:  Coldtyre [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Scotty wrote:
Any journalist who goes to Jacques Villeneuve for his opinion on F1 should not be allowed back into the paddock.

He just says divisive/controversial/anti-establishment garbage just to keep his name relevant.

Couldn't agree more, as a Canal+ viewer where Jacques is co-commentator. We put up with him about every rac, except a few where Franck Montagny takes over (a much more positive guy overall, and a more recent driver who actually brings his racecraft and technical knowledge about modern cars into it).

I like Jacques' brutal honesty, he tells it as it is, you've got to give him that, and it makes for fun live entertainment when someone or a team does something completely stupid. But it gets old quickly. You can even hear between the lines that the main commentator, a competent journalist, has trouble putting up with him.

Author:  Coldtyre [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

gd49 wrote:
Think I'm in the minority here that Verstappens post race actions were not acceptable. I think there's a difference between getting aggressive straight after an incident, compared to what Verstappen did when he'd had well over 30min to calm down and still made it physical. Can only assume the stewards didn't see his post race interview where he showed no remorse and thought shoving Ocon was fine, off that I think he deserved a much harsher punishment

Fully agree here and I don't think you're in the minority. Nobody here could shove a coworker like that, after said coworker has already been punished by management, and expect to get away without a reprimand at least or being written up. Heck, if you did it in front of your company's clients and during a public live filming, that's grounds for termination.

Even if we keep it to sports and even in the crook-filled sport that is football, you get red carded if you shove people even when you're the victim - including if you're doing it in the heat of the moment.

Author:  DanSN117 [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 5:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

https://twitter.com/Pereira_FC/status/1 ... 9362667520

Has this video been posted? I completely changed my mind after watching it..

Author:  Karan [ Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

As correctly pointed out by Lewis, Max had everything to lose there even though he was fully aware that Ocon was coming steaming down the outside with his huge speed advantage.
Ocon was well ahead going into the braking zone of T1 yet Max feels the need to stick his nose in and try to fend off Ocon. Why? All he had to do was back off a bit, let Ocon through and lose minimal time to Lewis and come out unscathed. Yet he brakes later and then turns into T2 basically expecting Ocon to magically disappear even though Ocon already had the majority of his car outside the white line. IMO all of these little incidents point back to the fact that Max believes too much of his own hype and already seems to consider himself as F1's next GOAT.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PeterDWindsor/status/1062454718906224640[/tweet]

Author:  Philthy82 [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Karan wrote:
As correctly pointed out by Lewis, Max had everything to lose there even though he was fully aware that Ocon was coming steaming down the outside with his huge speed advantage.
Ocon was well ahead going into the braking zone of T1 yet Max feels the need to stick his nose in and try to fend off Ocon. Why? All he had to do was back off a bit, let Ocon through and lose minimal time to Lewis and come out unscathed. Yet he brakes later and then turns into T2 basically expecting Ocon to magically disappear even though Ocon already had the majority of his car outside the white line. IMO all of these little incidents point back to the fact that Max believes too much of his own hype and already seems to consider himself as F1's next GOAT.

[tweet]https://twitter.com/PeterDWindsor/status/1062454718906224640[/tweet]


Yep, this and Peter Windsor's commentary are spot on.

Author:  codename_47 [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:57 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Thinking about it, was the DRS one detection point for 2 zones, or 2 detection points for 2 zones?

If it was 2, Max would've been much better off letting him go and getting a tow of the Mercedes and some DRS to boot
Looking at how much the Force India gained on the straight, it's unlikely he would've been straight by, but the combination of those two things could've been worth half a second over lewis

Saying that, this is Max's one key weakness atm.
As soon as he works out how to play the long game, he'll be dominating this sport, either with Honda's assistance in a Red Bull or replacing Lewis at Mercedes when he retires. (Merc scrapped HARD for him, it's the reason he came into the sport so young, Red Bull had to trump Merc's test driver offer by giving him the torro rosso drive, and I don't think Merc will ever forget that. If he's available when Lewis retires, or maybe even if he's not, expect him to be sitting in that seat)

Maybe he just really really hates Ocon after all the times they hit each other in F3 :P

Author:  Schumifan [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 11:44 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

What's really bugging me is the number of people who seem to think Max was 'clearly' ahead going into turn 2... which I'm sorry, he just wasn't. He was maybe half a car length ahead, at the very most. Since when does that give you the right to turn in, regardless of who might be on your inside? It's another example of this ridiculous and increasingly prevalent idea that being on the racing line gives you carte blanche to drive wherever you want, and to hell with whoever you might drive into.

Author:  RtN [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 12:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Courtesy of the denziens of Atlas;

Image

Ocon should not have been attempting to race anyone at the time of the collision.

Author:  DinoMarko93 [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

micha wrote:
but didnt multiple teams/drivers complain about the sudden slowdown of the Williams during the season?



Another one,same race,here,Ralf slowing down much earlier,you can see comparing it to the Jordan,and causing Barrichelo to hit him.


Author:  DanSN117 [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

RtN wrote:
Courtesy of the denziens of Atlas;

Image

Ocon should not have been attempting to race anyone at the time of the collision.


The blue flags insinuate that Ocon was ahead, enough to trigger blue flags.

So Max was trying to overtake a faster car that he wasn't in a race with.

I'm sorry, but the speed in which Ocon came past Max into turn one, Max should have let him go.

Ocon's fault? Yes.

As clear cut as the internet is making? Far from it.

Author:  RtN [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

The blue flag was likely in relation to Hamilton. I don't think the software reacts that fast in acknowledging Ocon's position versus Verstappen.

Author:  Coldtyre [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Golden rule in racing: once you're in the gravel trap or into the wall, no amount of bitching or debating can bring you back your track position. Not even the race officials. They can penalize the driver who wronged you, but not all the other ones who passed you in the process. And you pay your own repair bills (heck, medical bills if the worst happens). Ironically, Ocon is one to know that, he threw away a possible podium in Baku the second he turned in on Kimi assuming he "had" that corner.

Author:  De Cesaris fan [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 2:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

When I saw the incident live, I was questioning why Ocon was racing so hard. With the various angles now seen (especially the speed advantage you can see from Ocon's onboard), I now feel that it's 100% Max's fault.

Peter Windsor sums it up very well.

Author:  LucasWheldon [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 3:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

RtN wrote:
Courtesy of the denziens of Atlas;

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DryKlVOXcAA9MsQ.jpg

Ocon should not have been attempting to race anyone at the time of the collision.


this frame is pretty tricky as it depicts Ocon turning left in a right turn haha

but Max should had avoided the contact

Author:  NVirkkula [ Wed Nov 14, 2018 8:56 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula 1 Grande Prêmio Heineken do Brasil 2018

Coldtyre wrote:
Golden rule in racing: once you're in the gravel trap or into the wall, no amount of bitching or debating can bring you back your track position. Not even the race officials. They can penalize the driver who wronged you, but not all the other ones who passed you in the process. And you pay your own repair bills (heck, medical bills if the worst happens). Ironically, Ocon is one to know that, he threw away a possible podium in Baku the second he turned in on Kimi assuming he "had" that corner.



Hamilton was in a gravel trap at Nürburging 2007. Got more than a position back. So...it's therefore a...platinum rule? The blessed platinum rule of racing.

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