Jules Bianchi 1989 - 2015. RIP

kals · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:30 pm

I'm not referring to that.

NVirkkula · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:36 pm

What sense does it make to waste time with critically injured patient with slow transportation, Phil? I don't think a van can offer smoother ride than a big medical copter. What policy is that?

Kals, I didn't mean that medics shouldn't have hurried to the hospital. I just don't believe that the injury was survivable had Jules been at the hospital immediately. The first response team said that there was very little signs of life when they arrived to the scene. We all of course hoped for a miracle.

And yes, FIA's official report (washing hands) was hypocrisy at it's worst. They broke their own rules and put the blame on the victim.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:41 pm

NVirkkula wrote:

What sense does it make to waste time with critically injured patient with slow transportation, Phil? I don't think a van can offer smoother ride than a big medical copter. What policy is that?

I'm not an expert on the medical side, but in terms of brain injuries it's best to avoid pressure changes, so given the option the road would be the better choice, unless there was going to be an obvious huge time difference.

cArmAkAze · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:42 pm

I've read a few articles since Jules' passing, a majority of them are complete nonsense. Now that Jules is gone, let the finger-pointing commence.

Honestly, it has been basically the same protocol in F1 for decades and Jules is the first driver to succumb to race-condition injuries in over 20 years. There is plenty of blame to go around on everyone's part, even Jules, but playing the blame game is futile. Everyone needs to take a step back, analyze the accident, and come up with a solution to make sure this doesn't happen again. Stop looking for ONE reason why this happened, because you are going to be talking in a circle ad infinitum.

kals · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:54 pm

phil1993 wrote:

NVirkkula wrote:

What sense does it make to waste time with critically injured patient with slow transportation, Phil? I don't think a van can offer smoother ride than a big medical copter. What policy is that?

I'm not an expert on the medical side, but in terms of brain injuries it's best to avoid pressure changes, so given the option the road would be the better choice, unless there was going to be an obvious huge time difference.

Again, my original point wasn't helicopter versus road. Road was the chosen route due to helicopter being unable to fly because of the weather conditions, and the state of Jules' injuries (air pressure on head injury, etc...). To avoid confusion, I'm referring to this...

Appendix H of the FIA’s own International Sporting Code (that concerned with “Supervision of the Road and Rescue Services”) wrote:

An evacuation under intensive care by medically equipped ambulance (equipment and presence of a doctor proficient in resuscitation on board) with an escort may, however, be carried out, provided that the receiving hospital has been approved beforehand for the treatment presumed necessary according to the casualty’s condition and that it can be reached in approximately 20 minutes (except for serious burns), regardless of the weather and road traffic conditions (except in a case of force majeure). If these conditions are not satisfied, the timed session must be interrupted.

d) Unforseen circumstances, especially the weather, may prevent the arrival, departure or return of the helicopter. In such a case, and after consultation between:

– the Chief Medical Officer;
– the Race Director; and
– the FIA Medical Delegate;
an ongoing or interrupted timed session may perhaps continue or be resumed depending on the conditions of evacuation of a casualty under intensive care to one of the hospitals mentioned in the medical questionnaire for the event and approved by the FIA Medical Delegate.

Jules' evacuation took double the amount of time. Those minutes are critical in any patients treatment. That is obvious.

If you want to read more into this and read the knowledgeable questions of Gary Harstein, then go here - https://formerf1doc.wordpress.com/2014/ ... ion-panel/

By the way, this isn't a finger pointing exercise of futility fueled by emotion. Rather I'm sharing the same thoughts I've expressed elsewhere since the accident occurred and FIA report was published. If anything, the FIA did the finger pointing themselves when they agreed that Jules and Marussia's systems were the cause of the accident.

It would have been better if the FIA hadn't retired Jules' number. The gesture serves no purpose other than for the FIA to give themselves a pat of the back, make it look like they've done something good. I doubt it will make Jules' family feel any better, they've already made their feelings clear about the insensitivity of the FIA.

phil1993 · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 6:59 pm

It's difficult to fully discuss it when the full report is not public and there are still things ongoing.

kals · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:09 pm

phil1993 wrote:

It's difficult to fully discuss it when the full report is not public and there are still things ongoing.

Incorrect Phil. The full report may be private but the main findings were published and are final. The findings stated that the FIA and race directors followed correct protocols and procedures, the aspects around deployment of a safety car, race start time and weather conditions were in accordance to prior situations. The findings also stated that Jules' slowed during the waved yellow sector but arguably not enough and the warning systems in his car could have been better. Those two aspects being the biggest contributory factors to the accident.

As I said when the report was published:

kals on 13th December wrote:

The thing is, is that there are so many obvious holes in the FIA report. It is pretty blatant. Not only that but when you an independent investigation, you don't use internal resources who have a vested interest in subject matter. So if I were the Bianchi family, I would be asking my lawyer to construct a case against the FIA on two grounds... firstly on the personal side for defamation of character but also the stewards not mitigating the risk of further complications to Jules' health and injuries by not following their own rules and regulations (per Hartstein's comments), but secondly from a wider reaching perspective. The FIA has shown in the report that it has not learnt anything from the incident and has failed to act accordingly by setting out ways safeguard competitors and trackside workers.

Under Max Mosley in 1994 there were immediate actions put into place following the tragedies of Imola. Throughout the following 20 years there has been occasion after occasion where the governing body has instigated procedures that has better protected competitors and workers, yet it has not done so in this case. I suspect because if FIA did then there would be an admission of culpability in what transpired at Suzuka.

The retiring of Jules' number is a nothing gesture. It is more for the FIA than it is for Jules and his family.

Zorba · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 7:18 pm

A tractor should never get on track before the safety car in. Blame Jules is very easy. How many drivers ran too fast on that curve? Stupid FIA guys! Sutil aquaplaned there, why they thought it couldn't happen to another car? A 6 tons tractor on the track!!! In the rain!!! In that curve!!!

Think again guys, a tractor, rain, darkness, Sutil aquaplaned and crash there, a lots of absurds happens, and NO safety-car, NO red flag?

RIP Jules.

De Cesaris fan · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:03 pm

There are two main causes for the accident and I would place the blame with the FIA for both of them.

1 - They allowed a recovery vehicle onto the track in a very dangerous position without bringing out the Safety Car and slowing the field down.
2 - Bianchi didn't slow down anywhere near enough (double waved yellows mean that there could be marshals on the circuit so SLOW DOWN AND BE PREPARED TO STOP!). Can you blame him, though? The FIA has never clamped down on this behaviour and has always set a precedent of 'well, as long as you don't set your fastest sector time, that's proof enough that you slowed down!' I would expect F1 drivers to go through the corner at half their normal speed and to be about 5 seconds slower in the sector than normal. Not two tenths of a second, or a small hand gesture to say you saw the flags.

But why would the drivers do that? The FIA has never penalised anybody for it or done anything about it, so naturally they're going to try and lose as little time as possible. They left it until something serious happened, and I'm concerned that the same rule will still apply. So whilst you can technically blame Bianchi for going too fast, you can bet that every other driver went through that corner without slowing anywhere near as much as they should have done.

Gaara · PostPosted: Thu Jul 23, 2015 8:12 pm

Yea I think they did say that others didn't slow down sufficiently enough.

Japan '09 was the last time I remember drivers getting done for yellow infringements, but that was because they DID make improvements.

Sutil's car was actually being cleared away quickly. It's situations like this that suit the VSC. Slow down and not have to wait for others to catch up and do the wave around. All they'd needed was a couple of laps.

mclaren2008 · PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:39 am

Fact of the matter is, drivers never slow down for yellows.

The VSC is a good idea, should have come in a long time ago. It allows a small section of the track to be slowed but not requiring the full SC situation. It actually forces the drivers to slow down for an incident.

Gaara · PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 12:46 am

VSC is the full lap. Slow zones which F1 doesn't use do the same for a part of the track.

codename_47 · PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:43 am

They're at the bar getting the drinks ready....

kals · PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 2:17 am

Scotty wrote:

Sad thing is people (particularly this forum) will still be bitching about the FIA not letting them go out in the rain.

We're all hypocrites in some way and there are plenty of occasions when we post contradictory views. I'm surprised nobody has called me out yet for my views of the SC not being called out at Hockenheim, which is in complete contradiction to my views of Suzuka. The thing is, different situations call for separate perspectives. Just because we say the FIA are wimps for not allowing drivers out on a wet track it doesn't mean there is any correlation to what happened with Jules. In fact, slowing down in wet conditions can make matters worse for drivers.

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 1:42 pm

Scotty wrote:

Sad thing is people (particularly this forum) will still be bitching about the FIA not letting them go out in the rain.

De Cesaris fan wrote:

SLOW DOWN AND BE PREPARED TO STOP!

This sentence is something that needs to disappear from motorsport.

If an accident is so bad that you have to be prepared to stop, stop the race.

Scotty, you know that is not true. When the wreck blocking the track has just happened, the only instantaneous way of knowing it is the double-yellow waved by the marshall (nowadays, flashing lights on track and in-cockpit as well).

The rule merely means if you see a double-yellow, don't dick around. Don't lift off a little and try your luck. Jump on that left pedal and cruise at a reasonable speed until you have full visibility of the situation, otherwise you'll pull an Alonso 2003 or worse (incidentally, that race was technically under safety car when he hit that tyre). That wheel he hit could have been Webber's car on its side with an exposed cockpit.

A lot of BAD secondary impacts happen in that grey area just after the first crash, and just before everyone is fully aware of where debris are.

LucasWheldon · PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 3:47 pm

Scotty wrote:

The thought was there, but I find this kind of ridiculous.

Did Ronnie Peterson, Jack Brabham end up in hell? Not famous enough to be there? But Ratzenberger is?

perhaps they forgot the most talented of them all, Gilles

Ellu · PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2015 4:04 pm

If they let Ratzenberger out of it people will wine that everybody has forgotten about him. So where's Paletti? Di Angelis? etc. etc. People should not wine about such. The drawing is a gesture of support to the fallen drivers of F1.

stimaro · PostPosted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 6:56 pm

rallyman69 · PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 11:16 am

petition to rename a corner at the Monaco circuit to Jules Bianchi
https://www.facebook.com/pourjules

Coldtyre · PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2015 1:31 pm

It's cool to give proper tribute to the fallen, but let's not go overboard. Why Monaco? All corners have relevant/historic names already, and Bianchi was not from Monaco. They should pick another corner, either on a FIA Grade 1 track in France, or rename one of the countless corners on existing F1 tracks that have only "Turn #" numbers.

TBK-Light.com

Jules Bianchi 1989 - 2015. RIP

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